Here’s what I’d like to see in the final build that I think Capcom would be ok with.
Cr.LP +2 on block
Crescent Heel airborne on 3-5th frame
Piece of Mercury airborne on 3-5th frame
I think those two command normals should be able to crush lows much more reliably but still be meaty-able. Moves like these are like short hops in King of Fighter.
We’d need much more than that though in the face of the Ken Overlords.
PoM and CH being airborne earlier would be a great buff, I don’t think they’re airborne fast enough. Would be so much more useful in the Chun match especially, considering how fast her fucking crHK is. The range on that is disgusting, too. The range of Rufus’ crHP is also disgusting, and Claw is supposed to be a ranged fighter!
If they aren’t intending to change him and even nerf him in Ultra, then they need to beef up his raw damage to make up for it. His kind of play style needs more damage on normals than anything, and I’d take combo damage nerfs if the trade off was high damage normals. Like, at least 25% more damage. It would make up for the higher risk we take in pressing buttons and us having to rely on making many less mistakes than our opponents can make.
4f Cr.Lp + 2 on block
VS
6f Cr.MK + 3 on block
I figured that if you were at point blank range and you wanted spacing, that jab would be preferred, but it’s hard to argue against the usefulness having Cr.MK + 3 on block, but would Capcom deal?
c.MK being +3 on block could actually be a nerf. If you’re trying to do a tight frame trap after it, if gives them only a 1 frame window to press buttons and get hit.
We should be more concerned about Vega being equipped to deal with basic situations that come up every round, and having basic tools every other characters has.
I agree with this 100%
As for frame trap, adjust timing by a couple of frames then. It would be nice to mix up block string or frame trap and keep them guessing. Train them to think you’re doing a block string and then let them press a button when they think you fucked up, and bam, frame trap.
now that I have a god damn keyboard to use…
I said fix your fucking English because you type one thing and apparently mean something completely different. Then you go off on me for not fucking understanding what the fuck you’re saying. The grammar I can work though. But if you cant get your subjects, objects, and verbs correct then stay in your own fucking world and stop arguing about random shit then criticizing me for addressing it.
YOU can argue whether or not Vega needs cHP buff all you like. I dont care. I’ve already listed what characters and situations it will help with. For me, I’m content with that buff. If that’s not enough for you, then go tell capcom to buff the hitboxes or whatever the fuck you need on it buffed. I am perfectly content with it having 4 active frames because there’s only a few situations where I find the timing tricky to get down. Amazingly… it’s against characters with dive kicks. The exact same ones that we BOTH listed that it will help with. With the situations it doesn’t… no prob. He’s got lots of air to airs to deal with most everything else. cHP buff reduces the risk of being forced to jump to gain consistency on his anti airs. If you can hit everything that cHP can currently beat or trade with favoribly with 100% of the time perfectly… congradulations… I can’t. Dive kicks tend to fuck me up timing wise. And no I’m not asking for enough Active frames so that I can do a cHP and it will stay out there long enough for the dive kick to hit it. 2 more active frames is sufficient. 3 is ideal but I’m happy with 2.
Great “proof” there. Get your fucking reading comprehension skills up. I wasn’t talking about cLP being +2 on block. I was saying that being +3 on hit is worthless. Make it 3f startup or +5 on hit. But you know what? I’ll oblige you. Yes cMK (or damn near any poke he has) being +3 on block is better than cLP being +2 on block. You shouldn’t be spamming cLP to begin with. Not on block because it’s not a blockstring, and because you have better frame traps than cLP, cLP… and not on hit because of the scaling… PARTICULARLY because if throw of all things is your concern, you’d be doing cLP, cLP inside opponent’s throw range. Raise your hand here if you think doing that inside opponent’s throw range is a good idea. You think it being +2 on block is going to make it better simply because it will beat a frame tight throw attempt? The BEST thing you could now do with cLP being +2 on block is a frame perfect tick throw. One frame isn’t going to make a difference on the opponent’s reactions to it.
So there’s my first comment about cLP being +2 on block. My opinion… there are better options and buffs that can be given. Will I bitch if he gets it, or doesn’t get it? No, cause I really don’t care.
First of all:
“The same way that you believed that Ultras need more charge than the frame data says just because you could not do CH U2” That’s not what you quoted. That’s not what I said. And it’s not what I believed. Prime example. You say one thing then mean something completely different. I can’t read your fucking mind.
Second of all:
Since I apparently still denied it after someone finally fucking provides proof after what… 7 posts not being clear about it?
You want me to respond with reason and fucking logic? Make some fucking sense. You want me to stop misunderstanding you? Say what you mean to say. Don’t just go making up your own shit assuming other people can understand what the fuck you’re saying then refute what they say with something completely different.
Back to the point of improving Vega
If throw-out the Mask and Vega can have:
Cr.LP + 5 on hit
EX-SC invi 1-4 frames
Faster start-up on some normals, and CH
I think people will not cry about it. because with the mask still on Vega’s face, everything looks the same from AE 2012
If they made it so taking off the mask didn’t require meter, I’d be down for that. You get bonus damage anyway.
I feel like Capcom is trolling us. “Yo dawg, I heard you like nerfs. So we nerfed your nerfs so you can get nerfed while you’re nerf!”
You know what an interesting buff would be? +1 LP when his claw is off.
I thought of it before, but hell yeah I prefer losing the mask brings us not only + 1 on Cr.LP, but also grants some faster normals, because Vega losing the mask gone crazy and fast as hell (from anime, manga, comic), does this make sense?
If throwing out the mask can grant us useful tools like this, even it costs 2 bars like vanilla, that’s fine with me
What if our character just worked with the mask on
Let alone claw off. I detest that idea. It’s completely backwards.
Well, but it’s still better than the case that we do not get anything but nerfs from Crapcom, isn’t ?
No. No thanks. Not to me. Nope.
The very idea makes Capcom quake with terror.
That’s overblowing it a bit. He’s pretty much unchanged from AE to Ultra, he just can’t link off of EX Roll anymore. The other changes are buffs but they barely matter. It’s just that, again, everyone is getting stupid buffs but Vega is apparently the only character that’s problematic. Leaving him as-is was a terrible idea if you’re gonna go and make like 80% of his present matchups harder.
Super buff is a nerf though. 100 less damage but you get a 0 damage knee hit to allow it to combo. They took away EX RCF EX FBA combo in favor for the nerf. I mean really, we can get that almost much with 2 bars. There is still no reason to use super, just like before, and we lost our highest damage combo. I’d say that’s a nerf.
So the only buff we have so far is the extra active frames on crHP. Whoopie. The fact that 80% of the rest of the cast is getting serious buffs while we get nerfed is also a nerf, because he’s going to have an even harder time than before.
1 frame faster on U2. Whoopie.
Again, they might as well give Vega nerf claws graphically, at least it would be honest of Capcom.
;they can’t.
Making vega capable would break break the intended flow and rythym of the game. Capcom made it super clear that they wanted to bring in new players, and that meant allowing for offensive pushes into space easier than other games. why? because offensive fast paced games are more attractive to a wider audience.
They raped sagat after they found out what he did through zoning, and then establishing the offense. Either Sagat zoned you to death, or he simply locked you in place. They took both options away making him pathetic in SSF4. But did relatively nothing against Akuma, except remove the st.hk loops/pressure tools to allow easier back and forth. Seth who was perceived as to defensive and counter intutive to the “flow” of battle, was weakened, and they steadily made him much more aggressive. They made Ryu’s zoning weaker by eliminating the legendary fireball trap. Anything that “staled” the game was weakened, even if it wasn’t waranted. Look at Gen from SF4 to SSF4, nerfed for no reason what so ever, yet IIRC, some capcom rep said that peeps wheren’t playing Gen like Capcom wanted people to play Gen.
Capcom has a very clear and consice idea of what they want this game to be. giving vega the tools to adequately deal with characters is counterproductive to what they want to push.
Guile, Chun-Li and Dhalsim are even more of a detriment to this goal. They actively shut down the options of the opponent and try to prevent counterplay. (Particularly Guile, a bunch of his matchups are just “throw LP boom, pick the right AA when they try to jump or EX through fireballs, slowly win”.) And none of them have as heavy set backs as Vega.
Giving these characters the tools to deal with basic situations is just as bad, WORSE even, for an offensive game but Capcom has no problem with them and is buffing them to high hell. Those three characters control the ground game much harder (Vega merely plays footsies while Sim, Guile and Chun actually CONTROL the ground game and disable the opponent’s ), but have always had options to deal with basic things like anti-airs and reversals while Vega gets shafted. (Yes I know Sim is lacking on wakeup but he’s not completely out of options when he’s not cornered.)
Capcom comes down harder on Vega than any other character in the game because he happened to seem really strong in the beta (of vanilla and ultra).
Back in mah’ day, if you wanted to combo into EX.Walldive, you had to do it from cr.MK or cr.LP or else it would wiff!
Oh the horrors of vanilla Vega!