I don’t complain about lack of AA. I complain about lack of grounded AA that doesn’t require charge. I can at best get 2 U1s a round. cHP fixes that. It’s the minimum adjustment needed to gain some reasonable consistency on it. I’m content in the AA department. It’s not ideal… but it’s sufficient with the cHP buff.
Again, I could care less if the opponent presses a button or not if I have U1. If they jump when I have charge not on wakeup, button press or not they get nailed. Something U2 sucks at… moreso than I originally thought.
You are again, as always, tweaking what I said.
I won’t keep explaing what I just said because either you can’t see it or you are, as it seems, purposily changing my point so you can argue with it.
Anyway, it will be really fun seeing you with the EXACT SAME crHP against 35 characters of the cast.
Newsflash: How crHP can work as an AA 101: "Against Jump Ins"
This game runs at 60fps. So the hitbox interactions are not exactly smooth. The hitboxes “jumps” in the space as the frames go on. So a bad hitbox can actually manage to trade with a good hitbox if they “pop off” inside each other. Going on:
The fourth frame of crHP (the exact one before it starts up) have a hurtbox that its actually small enough to NOT leave Claw exposed to far jump ins.
The fifth frame (when it actually started) has really big hurtbox and a somewhat mediocre hitbox.
So the trick is fairly obvious: The 4th frame is away from the jump in. While the 5h frame already has its hitbox inside the hurtbox of the opponent, and the opponent, in most cases, already have his hitbox inside yours. So, ta da. A trade occurs. Thats how well you need to time it. Now, explain to me, how more active frames in the frame 7th and 8th frame will actually improve its usage as AA in this scenario? It will not.
It will help against Gief jiHP/jiMK/jiD+LK mixup. Because each one requires different timing (and spacing, to be honest).
Against most of the dive kicks (the ones like EX Cannon Strike, forget it, it will not work). Simpy because most of them have a really, really, really shitty hitbox. So priority does not quite matter. The problem in anti airing them is because you never know when they are going to stop the jump and actually Dive Kick. So if you time it wrong, by the time they reach you, you already run out of active frames.
Maybe it can help against Cody, Boxer and Abel. Because you can just stick it there and wait for their jump ins (that are more ass than yours AAs) to get nailed by it. But I already have no trouble timing it. So whatever, I would not put them in the list.
We end up with what? 4 characters that will make crHP more viable? Don’t know about the 5 new ones, though. But its somewhat around that for sure.
Anyway, I am surprised that you can react with U1 as an AA, even midscreen it seems?
That shit has one of the most difficult inputs in the game to react with. It needs bloddy 8 frames to Claw actually leave the ground and start going to the wall. About 5 frames to reach the wall. More 8f for the Ultra flash and then 1 for the startup. Add more 2~3 to reach the opponent. Thats a 24f with that ridiculous input.
To put things in comparison: You know when you reacted with U2 late enough so that they jump in and they actually manage to block? Yeah, that time, if you were using U1, you would not even manage to get out of the ground. You were not even halfway to the first airborne frame. You’d need to react about 18f faster with a more difficult input. Do you have any idea the reaction that it takes to make it possible?
I am a guy that is very proud of my own reactions. But I can’t even dream about that. React with U1 when he is in the first 1/4 of his jump arc?
Did somebody actually used it like that in a regular basis? Even better: Did someone used it at all?
That would be news to me. Because I can’t. I know that even Reiketsu or Makoto cannot.
If you said that you only do it when you are in the corner… man… lol, that would be funny.
and here i thought vegaman uses the knee part of the ultra to anti air, which would be news to me. i am left disappointed if he uses the back wall to do it…
about the u1 difficulty, i was playing around last night and fount a great solution, do the u2 motion, but end it with uf instead of u (that’s if you execute u2 with db,df,b,f). if i want to go to the back wall, i do the same motion, but hold db afterwards like i’m charging after a cosmic heel. i was doing jump in hk to u1 with no problems, i was so surprised
Personally, I think U1 AND U2 sucks!! In fact, I RARELY catch ultra’s when playing. Mostly because I’m usually controlling the round so much that I win without even building an ultra, but also because both ultra’s are extremely limited and situational in their uses. I can honestly say that on average, I catch an ultra once every 10 games, AT MOST. I’ve been so conditioned to win without an ultra that I have to remind myself from time to time that I have that as an option.
@Vegaman. If you’re able to execute U1 on reaction to jump ins, please explain what you do because I among many others in here would love to add that to my play style. I’ve had so many of my U1 attempts stuffed by random shit that I have to look at my meter sometimes just to see if it was executed. It’s the most frustrating feeling in the world to know you just lost an entire ultra meter to a freaking jab.
@Claw Strike, I too have been practicing dash ultras and walk ultras and have found great success by changing the way I input the ultra. I’m not sure if this is what you’re doing but the fastest way to input the ultra (and this applies to both ultras) is the half circle to downback, to up forward method. Basically you build your down back charge, then press forward, slide the stick around to downback, then immediately to upforward +KKK. Do this in one fluid motion and you’ll execute an ultra.
The dash ultra involves mostly the same motion, only instead you press forward, forward to first dash. You have to time your inputs so that you finish with the upforward +KKK at the ending animation of the dash.
My bad. I haven’t been using it enough then, I figured because U2 was nerfed that U1 was as well.
As soon as you see them jump, U1 to your wall. It destroys pretty much anything, even on the ground if they press a button they’re screwed. There is hardly anything that will stop U1 if you do it right.
Trying to hit with the knee is not doing it right though. The knee hit really sucks and will get destroyed by jumps. If jabs are beating your U1, then you’re on the ground and trying to do it on start up.
IMO U1 is much better over all, except in the one situation that if you’re on the ground and they’re pressuring you, you are screwed. Every attack in the game destroys the start up of U1. It’s an excellent ranged Ultra though, and it can even beat close jumps as long as you are close enough to your wall and can grab it before they hit you.
You can also go to their wall under them and hitting them during their recovery, and avoid worrying about getting hit on the way up.
You also have to use it almost exclusively on reaction.
It depends on distance. I go under to forward wall when they are closer than 1/2 screen. Back wall when they 1/2 screen and further…
And yes I do it regularly.
@nic.
Make the opponent whiff vs the knee hit. There’s only 3 situations I attempt to land it. On reaction to a jump.
On reaction to a fireball
Anticipation of throw on wake up.
I wonder if people still think this is a bad idea after Capcom removed the Cr.LP buff. I honestly didn’t think it would even make it through at all which is why I proposed this balanced approach months ago. Now it seems that neither this or Ex ST buff will be in the final build. So what buffs did Vega get other than to his super which came at the cost of EX RCF’s combo potential?
I’m not changing anything. You asked a question. I answered it. Here’s how it helps. 4 active frames instead of 2. Makes it far easier to deal with jumps that change trajectory or timing. If I’m misunderstanding what you’re typing then be more clear. It will not be a single button answer for every AA attempt. Moves it loses to will still lose. Use another move. It’s not a hitbox issue. It’s a timing one. Why you refuse to understand that iono. It doesn’t need omgwtfbbq size hitboxes. The hitboxes are fine. If that’s what you’re saying then stop arguing with me for no damn reason. If it’s not, well whatever. You’re wrong simply because you’re either not talking about the same thing I’m talking about, or you’re saying the hitboxes need to be adjusted or changed when they don’t.
Would it help? Yes. I’m not arguing that point. He doesn’t need it. Point is that doubling the active frames makes it twice as easy to time correctly.
And fuck this power outage making me type on the damn slow ass fucking auto correct bull shit
Interesting. I didn’t mind the damage nerf when I requested it on the Unity forum as a fun bonus but to have it come at the cost of another move’s combo potential stings. I’d rather have the former or the Super buff.
I agree. The U1 threat keeps the opponent grounded. U1 is an antiair, anti-fireball and a whiff punisher. It can punish some quick normals if your back is to the wall.
A motion I recommend for U1 is DB + forward 360 and you’ll get the knee animation.
You did not read what I said and yet you feel like answering something.
Pay attention:
The jump ins that it already works, its retardely easy to time it. I never miss it, never will. Because its easy as fuck. Its like mistiming a jump in.
See: “Maybe it can help against Cody, Boxer and Abel. Because you can just stick it there and wait for their jump ins (that are more ass than yours AAs) to get nailed by it. But I already have no trouble timing it. So whatever, I would not put them in the list.”
The dive kickers and Gief:
“It will help against Gief jiHP/jiMK/jiD+LK mixup. Because each one requires different timing (and spacing, to be honest).
Against most of the dive kicks , like Yun, Yang, Rufus, Regular Cannon Strike (the ones like EX Cannon Strike, forget it, it will not work), maybe Seth’s, now that it will have a larger hurtbox, its possible. Simpy because most of them have a really, really, really shitty hitbox. So priority does not quite matter. The problem in anti airing them is because you never know when they are going to stop the jump and actually Dive Kick. So if you time it wrong, by the time they reach you, you already run out of active frames.”
Those are the 6~8 characters that will actually make it easier to use(this time I actually went into character select screen and though about everyone): Cammy, Gief, Makoto, Rufus, Yang, Yun and possibly Dan and Seth.
Against all the rest of the cast it will be the exact same move.
Now, give me an example of a Character that change his jump arc, that I did not listed there, that will actually help. I am giving concrete examples every damn time. You are just theoryfighting. Even Guile’s and Sakura’s crHP can’t deal with such jump ins, why do you think that having 4 active frames on a move which hitbox is pointed way off the way that those jump ins come will help? I think I know the answer.
Why? Because of this:
“This game runs at 60fps. So the hitbox interactions are not exactly smooth. The hitboxes “jumps” in the space as the frames go on. So a bad hitbox can actually manage to trade with a good hitbox if they “pop off” inside each other. Going on:
The fourth frame of crHP (the exact one before it starts up) have a hurtbox that its actually small enough to NOT leave Claw exposed to far jump ins.
The fifth frame (when it actually started) has really big hurtbox and a somewhat mediocre hitbox.
So the trick is fairly obvious: The 4th frame is away from the jump in. While the 5h frame already has its hitbox inside the hurtbox of the opponent, and the opponent, in most cases, already have his hitbox inside yours. So, ta da. A trade occurs.
Thats how well you need to time it.”
So, you have to time it well between the 4th and 5th frame so it can trade (I really would like you to NOT ignore this part again, as its the one that refutes completely what you are saying). More active frames would mean nothing.
And you seems able to state that “Claw doesn’t need a better hitbox on his AA” somehow. Maybe because when you think about it all you can see is a one button to solve all the cases… which everybody should know that its a complete bullshit. You can’t (more like don’t want to) see that you can simply make a slight improvement. Making that if you manage to space it really, really well, you can trade with the opponent jump ins realiably using that method that is above and not to be eaten alive by a jump in when you spaced AND time it perfectly.
To you, Vegaman, that have trouble to understand what I am saying: crHP will help against 7 characters. The others 33 characters will not be affected by it. Stop making a huge deal out of it. Stop saying that “no need a better ST… now crHP fixs that”. Because you are completely wrong and making others people believe in it.
Characters not listed:
Guy- elbow drop
Viper- non cross up BKs
DJ- jLK
Ryu/Ken/Akuma- non meaty x-up Tatsu
Adon- Jag tooth
Sim- teleport and sniper
Juri- dive kick
Characters you listed it works for:
Rufus- dive kick
Yun- dive kick
Yang- dive kick
Cammy- Canon strike
Gief- jLK
Characters it won’t help against:
Makoto
Thawk
ERyu
Oni
Ibuki
Gen
Iffy:
Seth
Fuerte
Dan
Repeating what you already said doesn’t change the facts. Yes against the rest of the cast is the exact same move. Nothing wrong with that. It’s actually pretty good currently. i.e. why I use it so much now. But the ones it does help against are typically the more difficult characters to deal with. I know what causes trades. Adding 2 more active frames means you can mistime the cHP by an additional 2 frames early and still get the trade. It makes the window larger by 2 frames. How you don’t see that as a good thing when your point says he only has a 1 frame window currently baffes me.
And I’m not arguing against having a better ST. I’m fine with buffs to it. But 4 invincibility frames is worthless. The only thing that helps against is frame traps and we already have blocking that deals with those better anyway. You wanna argue for buffing St? Go for it. But fix the hitboxes first, and don’t talk about adding invincibility without adding the ability to FADC for safety because it’s worthless with only 4 invincible frames. If you only want invincibility and nothing else buffed to it, then it needs to cover all the way until the first frame of the 2nd hit, or not require meter. I think his ST is fine as it is if they buff his offensive options.
And sorry, if I wanted a one button beats all move I’d be pushing for hitbox changes. I’m not. And now your saying that I’m the one having problems using cHP when I’ve been using it well since super? Yet I’m the one theory fighting? Talk about ad hominem. How about you stop downplaying the buff as if you actually used the move. It’s a minor buff. It’s all he needs in the AA department. Lemme repeat that for you… That’s all he needs in the AA department. As in he doesn’t need hit box changes. Hitbox changes are purely in the “nice to have” category.
You say… that I said (when I never did), that you do not use crHP, so your argument is invalid.
Then you conclude that I am using ad hominem.
Then you go and say that I don’t use the move. Thus my opinion is invalid.
See that logic in that? Read it again, please, and think about it. What you just did its funny as hell.
But, no worries, I will help you, see;
“I whore crHP wherever its possible. I even troll scrubby giefs with that move .
How can you say that I do not use crHP if do not see me playing in a regular basis? I think its the same way that you want to have a serious argument while believing that crHP will somehow be able to deal with crossup tatsus.
The same way that you believed that Ultras need more charge than the frame data says just because you could not do CH U2.
The same way that you believed that U2 catchs empty jumps because yes.
The same way that you believe that a +3 on block crMK is better than +2 on block crLP.
The same way that you want a +4 overhead and still be taken seriously.
The same way that you want a 3f crLP and still be taken seriously.
You got some things right. But like the folks over here say: Even a clock that its stopped get it right two times a day.”
There you go. Now you are allowed to raise the ad hominem card.
But, moving along: You still choose to not answer what I say. Instead you attack random arguments that you see in this forums here and there.
Hell, I’ve bolded the only think that you need to answer regarding the crHP subject and you go and talk, AGAIN, how you think that an invencible EX ST its worthless.
.