On counter hit, you can do a ton of new combos. cr.LP, cr.MK, cr.MP. Etc.
I think it’s a very useful buff. We’ve all learned to master the one-frame timing of his cr.LP. But now, we can use it more offensively. If you use cr.LP to pressure your opponent (walk forward, cr.LP, walk forward, cr.LP cr. LP), and you notice one of the cr.LP hitting the opponent, you can instantly turn that into an EX FBA combo with ease. This creates a very scary situation for the opponent.
I am praying they don’t remove the EX ST. Vega needs this. It’s not going to break him. Vega has waited long enough - It’s our time to shine.
My question to you is, had you known then what you know now, how much of a challenge would the tournament have been? Think about it and give me your earnest response.
The fact of the matter is that you were able to compete, not only compete but make it to the Grand finals vs. solid opposition. On top of being competitive, you managed to CONVINCENGLY make your way to the finals. You accomplished this with less knowledge than you have now. Even you yourself admitted that if you applied ex ST correctly, it would not have traded with certain jump ins.
My point in bringing this up is to approach this discussion from an outsiders perspective. For the sake of things, I’ll play devils advocate at the moment.
If you can look back on your play style during tournament and visualize adjustments you could’ve made with the knowledge you have now, would any character pose a threat?
I knew it, using ex-ST late as possible will make it a decent AA. Hopefully capcom doesn’t hit vega with a nailed nerf bat.
But if things keep going good like this looks like we’ll most likely have Chris King, Zeus, Jozhear, El Cubano Loco (heck I even hope Tatsu comes back if the final build leaves Vega great) finally win a major or even EVO with Vega or even new vega players that would prolly pick him increasing that chance. (^_^)
Also Chris King already got top 25 at EVO with this current claw this year.
Edit: Chris King, have you ever not liked not being able to combo into lp.rcf from a cr.lp,cr.mp at max range of the claw, it looks like you’re up for vega having better offensive capabilities right?
having a good meterless combo while still being able to pressure a opponent will be a good bonus besides just CH-ST. H.ST wiffing on combos is a problem too that shouldnt be happening. :’(
Okay you had to be THAT guy. The person that takes a small clip from my entire post and make a smartass remark.
I was hoping I didn’t have to deal with bs responses like yours in here but I was wrong.
First off, I chose to participate in the discussions because like everyone in this forum, I’m excited at the prospect of things to come in Ultra. In particular, the changes being made today. Also, having mained the character for as long as I have and subsequently gained a lot of knowledge of the character, I felt it appropriate to express my opinion on the subject matter.
I have not spoken in certainty. I have not come across as all knowing. And for damn sure, I am not speaking as if I’ve played the early build. I am among the majority of posters in here that are unable to play the first build because of geographic location. I’m not fortunate to live in California. So I did not see the need to explain in detail what I meant when I made that statement you highlighted.
Just in case it was unclear to you and anyone else, I meant to say, “before anyone thinks I have no knowledge of Vega”.
I’ll repeat this, not because I feel its necessary to prove myself but to avoid possible smart remarks like the one you gave me. I am a seasoned Vega player that has a thorough understanding of the character, thanks to the information, videos, and match up knowledge everyone in the SRK forums has graciously shared throughout the years.
With this knowledge, I feel confident enough to have a mature conversation regarding the upcoming changes being made.
That being said, please enlighten me on exactly what I said that warranted that reply from you? Since clearly, you know something that I don’t.
Though I can understand your reaction, Nicfurious, I think you need to cool down.
In this forums, almost if not all regular members are skilled as well. But there are among us some who are consistent tournament players. And even top class tournament players, such as Jozhear, and Chris King.
So, while having some knowledge just makes you match the average, I find it a little conceited to question thoughts of a top class player. Chris King does knows his shit better than we do, don’t you think ? =)
It’s probably that you said it in the first place. Being wrong about shit happens. To anyone.
But just let your statements stand for themselves, don’t cap them with a footnote that nobody should doubt you cuz you’re new or some shit.
Like you accusing me of trolling you. I don’t even respect you enough to troll you yet haha, I just straight up answered your comment with my own. It wasn’t meant to offend you but clearly it did.
Whatever, enough of this here. This is the usf4 vega thread not a soap.
Sorry but I’m not understanding what it is that I said that made me sound conceited. Also, my bad on accusing you of trolling me. I mistook you for another person.
My intentions are not to come off cocky so if I’m coming off that way some feed back would be appreciated as to what I’m doing wrong. Please clarify what it is you meant when you said, “It’s probably that you said it in the first place.”
I’m not here to beef, I’m willing to listen to critiques if I’m doing something wrong but the only thing you’ve been doing so far is trolling me. You reply to my posts but don’t say much…
If you feel as though my opinion is irrelevant simply ignore it.
Since USF4 beta cosmic heel wasn’t well thought out enough and combofiend wants it changed and not be +2 on block and rcf -8 on hit being a mistake, I wonder their true intinional changes on rcf and CH are they really trying to nerf them regardless of players feed back…
Not taking anyway from Chris because he’s a top notch player… but he was getting away with murder. Only snake eyez addressed his almost insane use of cMP. By the time Valle caught onto it the match was pretty much over. And Chris not only abused it, but controlled the space where the opponent couldn’t jump over. He probably spaced it out well enough that if the opponent tried to jump over they ate EX ST and the invincibility would have paid off or ate U2.
Thing is… baiting a cMP is usually the very first thing opponents learn to do against an average Vega player (because its the first poke Vega players learn to use). If the opponent is airborne when Vega presses cMP button there is nothing Vega can do. Same goes with focusing through. How no one adjusted to this is beyond me but props to Chris for recognizing it.
Though I’d be really surprised if this continued to work as well as it did over any long term.
Addressing this, its not hard to get on on Vega at all. Bait anything that isn’t a light and jump over. 90% of ppl beat Vega that way. The only time its hard to get in is on the ground… and even that is skeptical when you consider focus attacks. Even if the Vega tries to air to air you, there’s absolutely no guarentee that his air to air options will win out. Most characters have at least 1 air option superior to most if not all of Vega’s air to air options. Since anti airing from the ground isn’t reliable either, that puts Vega in a high risk/low reward situation on EVERY anti air attempt. And the only way to avoid that risk is to give up space or block the jump in.
That’s one of the 3 inherent problems with Vega. This one in particular has been around since Vanilla. Not only is it a low risk to the opponent to try to jump in… but if they are successful Vega has to take more high risks with low rewards in order to get the opponent off or escape. With low health, stun, and an additional health penalty from mask loss this doesn’t seem very fair for Vega.
To make matters worse after he has successfully taken these high risks to reset the situation Vega has to rely on an offense the revolves entirely on his Kara throw to get that damage. Something that becomes extremely predictable if the opponent who just obtained a sizable life lead decides to only take low risks and sit on down back. His offense is a 20f startup, 70 damage overhead, a highly risky jump in with no ability to cross over, and a great Kara throw. This is more than sufficient if the opponent presses buttons, but that isn’t always the case. You can only attempt Kara throw so many times before the opponent predicts it… successfully. You’ve then lost momentum, positioning, and life.
If you seriously think that EX ST with 4 i-frames will make Vega broken then look at Guile. Vega can jHP on Guile all day. Spaced and timed properly, Guile has a 1 or 2 frame window to usefully execute flash kick where it doesn’t get either stuffed or guile eats a jump in (excluding EX FK). Yet EVERY version of his reversal has invinciblity. EVERY version can be FADC’d for safety. EVERY version can combo into ultra. In addition, guile has a fairly good anti air normal. So how is this not OP?
All this build had was the anti air normal and one invincible EX that can’t combo into ultra (except off a trade) and can’t be FADC’d. Yet everyone crys “foul!”
If on the other hand we were getting i-frames on every version or the ability to FADC it… then I can see a somewhat weak argument that it makes Vega OP. As it stands… its only use is to blow up frame traps. Because the exact same way I jump in on Guile is the exact same way ppl will jump in on Vega.
