Ultra 3rd Strike FULL v0.22 Release

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Ultra 3rd Strike FULL v0.22 Release

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m9O8bDDMSc
Trailer Link: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0m9O8bDDMSc

NEW VERSION: v0.22 was released, fixing a few freeze bugs.

The purpose of this project is to bring the 3rd Strike spirit to Street Fighter 4.

This mod completely changes the game to behave closer to 3rd Strike, adding parrying, universal overheads, and tweaking every aspect of every characters.

The full version is currently supporting 11 out of 44 characters, Akuma, Cody, Decapre, Dudley, Guy, Ken, Makoto, Oni, Ryu, Seth and Yang.

Download Ultra 3rd Strike FULL v0.22 - 14.97 MB - Released April 30, 2015

Street Fighter 3 Stage Music Pack - 1.32 GB - Released April 27, 2015

Website: http://sfjake.t15.org/u3sm.html

Thanks to Dantarion for his amazing work with “Ono”, the moveset editor, as well as the launcher. This would not have been possible without him.

The launcher is borrowed from USF4 Remix, with the permission of Anotak, Zeipher and Dantarion.
Thanks to all of them.

Keep reading for more in-depth information.

This mod adds the following feature to the game…

-Parrying
-Universal Overhead (Normal and EX)
-High Jumps for all characters
-Faster Dashing Walk Speed, Stun recovery, Throw Tech
-No Reversal Mashing
-Cancellable Jabs-Shorts chains
-Meter on Whiff

And the full version now also adds:

-Complete Character Rework

-Jumping Rework (shorter jumps, smoother angle)

-More Parrying Improvements

-3rd Strike’s Triple Super Selection System

-3rd Strike’s Quick-Stand System

-3rd Strike’s Juggle System

-Dashing is completely reworked

-Focus Attacks & Armor Breaking removed

-Frame Data heavily reworked for all characters

-Damage increased against Crouched character, Counter-Hit damage removed

-Pushback, Physics, Reset Physics reworked

-CPU AI reworked to be more fun and unpredictable

-And more

Read further below for more in-depth details.

Currently supported characters: 11
-Akuma
-Cody
-Decapre
-Dudley
-Guy
-Ken
-Makoto
-Oni
-Ryu
-Seth
-Yang

Do NOT use non-supported characters.

They will not work correctly with the others.

===Complete Character Rework===
Besides everything below, every character sees many changes, some moves completely reworked, some entirely new moves, 3 distinct super, and a LOT of small changes to bring them closer to 3rd Strike’s feeling and speed.

A full sheet of character moves is available on the website.

You will also find those sheet available with the mod itself.

===Jumping===
Jumping has been completely reworked.

Most jumps are shorter (you now have high jumps to compensate) and as such, have a smoother angle.

===Parrying===
Parrying has been adjusted dramatically to mimic 3rd Strike as much as possible.

Moves like Ryu’s crouch MP can be parried both up and down.

Many moves have hand-crafted hitboxes to make sure that they respect 3rd Strike’s parry rules.

===3rd Strike’s Triple Super Selection System===
Ultras have been removed from the game.

Instead, you pick 1 of 3 Supers at character selection.
Different supers use different amount of meters.

This is Ryu’s selection:
I - Shinkuu Hadouken -> 2 bars
II - Shin Shoryuken -> 4 bars
III - Denjin Hadouken -> 2 bars

===3rd Strike’s Quick-Stand System===
Forget SF4’s quick-stand, and forget delayed wake-up.

The system is now exactly the same as 3rd Strike. Quick-stand makes you move backward as you get up.

You can quick-stand out of throws, crouch roundhouses and most moves you could not before, except supers.

===Dashing is completely reworked===
Each character’s dashing has been hand-crafted to feel better, smoother, and faster.

Back dashing loses invincibility to all but throws, but they move back faster as well.

===3rd Strike’s Juggle System===
The juggle system is now almost exactly like in 3rd Strike. All moves add a certain amount of Juggle Points, and if the juggle points go over 12, you can no longer juggle.

This is a much more free-style system, unlike SF4 which uses strict rules on a per-move basis to decide if you can hit in a juggle or not.

Now, if one attack can hit, all attacks can hit.

===Focus Attacks & Armor Breaking removed===
Parrying is the focus now, and everything (besides grab-moves and Akuma’s new raging fist) can be parried.

===Frame Data reworked===
Most moves in the games have been adjusted in one way or another.

Links between normals are much more scarce, jabs don’t link into fierce, jabs have less hitstun and don’t combo into everything, and more.

I’ve done as much as I can to mimic 3rd Strike’s style of hit advantage.

===Damage, Crouch Damage and Counter-Hits===
Counter-hits no longer deal additional damage or stun.

Hit on crouch characters now deals 25% more damage.

===Pushback, Physics, Reset Physics reworked===
Most attacks (mostly normals) have more pushback.

Reset physics (thats when an attack resets your character instead of a juggle in the air) is completely changed for every move.

===CPU AI reworked===
All supported characters have their AI tweaked completely to be more fun, more unpredictable and have no instant-reaction behavior.

===Other Changes===
-In SF4, a lot of moves have a flag that prevents them from hitting crouched characters completely. This is now changed. This means that certain moves will hit or whiff crouching characters depending on their size and hitboxes. This is true to 3rd Strike’s behavior.

-Air Throws can now be teched. As of now, only Decapre has a techable air-throw.

-Input Leniency has been altered slightly. You can no longer mash shoryuken with Forward + Down-Forward (you still can with Down + Down-Forward), most input windows are shortened slightly. Things like dashing -> fireball are easier now without triggering a buffered shoryuken.

-When a character is reset, they remain vulnerable to attacks for 3 to 7 frames (depending on the move). For example, Dudley can do Forward MK -> Uppercut, even though MK resets, the Uppercut comes out fast enough to hit. 3rd Strike had a similar behavior.

-The CAMERA no longer shifts angle and direction for super moves and certain command throws.

This mod has taken a LOT more time to do than I expected it to. There are so many details and things to do for every characters, and too little time in life for it.

Future versions will come (one day) with more characters.

All characters included are feature complete and shouldn’t see many changes besides bug fixes or balance changes.

Enjoy!

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this…is…beautiful…I might cry…I’m crying.

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As much as I dislike third strike I can say this is a really good mod…congrats to you sir

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Nice work, kind of surprised Cody is the only one without a Target Combo, not saying he needs it just kind of neat coincidence.

Testing, feels like Cody’s jabs are really weak now, he can’t combo anything except for EX Moves off of any light. He can’t even combo a super off of crLK except for Assassinate. I actually now kind of thing he COULD use a target combo from jabs at least, maybe his FF chain? Perhaps give some other chars a few target combos they can actual use from a light or as a quick confirm instead of a link combo due to the less reliance on links in this mod. Most chars in SF3 had 2 target combos IIRC.

Curious what you think his gameplan should be? Like he can’t confirm to any heavy except off overhead, most of his normals are on the slow side that he needs for footsies or frame traps, his closeHP, closeMP, and F+MP all push him out of throw range. He can’t confirm from a low into super or even a jab into super like standard 3S style gameplay, he has to use far more whiff punishable normals like crMP, farMP, and crHP for footsies.

I saw you added the ability for F+HK to hit crouching opponents but it sails right over every one of the content complete character except Seth, is this intentional? Should it hit more crouching or just not hit Seth?

I’m not entirely sure of the use for far criminal upper, feels too slow to startup to beat fireballs, too slow to use for zoning, and even as like a meaty it has a long recovery. Any suggestions? The EX version is super useful though.

His knife is really good now, I love everything about it. I’d say the ONLY wish I had for it is more chip but it doesn’t need it by any means I think you did a fantastic job, feels quite useful for footsies now and the juggles are better than USF4’s.

If you juggle into Last Dread Dust you can often end up whiffing the later attacks and being punishable on hit, is this by design to make it less useful? Because I can’t see almost ever picking Dead End Irony over LDD even with the 1bar cost difference.

Not sure how I feel about just a straight 120% increase to walk speed across the board, should be done on the merits of each characters needs IMO. Example, doing a 120% increase on Cody’s walk speed still leaves him slower backwards than the average SF4 classic character, one of the biggest requests for Cody since AE2012 was a faster backwards walk speed specifically.

One note though, Cody’s badspray from face up still has 20F more recovery than face down, this only affects wall bounces though (maybe some throws now? not sure.) Also Cody’s crouching knife normals are still not considered to be crouching, they count as standing still. This is kind of important now with the extra damage on crouching opponents.

Personally I’m not liking the buffer time on DP first input being THAT short. I’m dropping it a lot more than I do even in ST. Any chance of a slight increase? Like 1-2F more?

Cody’s juggles seem really good as long as he has the meter though I dunno how it compares to others.

Main question though (as I said earlier) is, how do you see Cody being played? What is his gameplan?

Other notes, I’m pretty sure you didnt mean to make Akuma have a 13F backdash, especially when you got Seth still at 21F and Cody at 20F with the proper 8F throw invincibility while akuma only has 4F invincibility. Also Oni only has 5F throw invincibility, I’d bet there are others where the 8F you attempted didn’t translate in-game due to the difference in speed values during the 0-8F part of the backdash.

How do you feel throws should be best utilized in this? They don’t really offer the stun output of SF3 (really much of the moves don’t offer quite the stun output of SF3 but stun also recovers way faster in SF4) and some of them don’t really offer much in the way of positional advantage for some characters. Is it strictly a guard breaker?

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You’ll have to keep in mind that 3rd Strike has a different approach. Its easy to see just what he lost but how do we know how well he can really do in a new world?

For now, I’ll try and answer your questions directly.

His normals are still good enough to throw out there. Remember, parry is your friend. Cody can get great damage from a single normal.

LP criminal upper is pretty much safe on block and you can hit-confirm the criminal upper into any super.

Jabs and shorts combos into EX Ruffian Kick MK, which is also safe on block.

EX Range is a huge threat, obviously. You can use it as a combo extended as well (f+HK -> EX Range -> f+HK -> something)

You can use bad stones to approach (cody recovers almost immediately as he throws them).

If you want jab-super combo, pick his III and use the MK version.

And you know about the overhead which combos into anything you want.

Never forget the potential of a single well-placed parry with Cody as well.

He’s a difficult character to use in this world, I admit.

The change that I did here is in minor changes because the hitbox against crouching is quite high. This move is still a move that should whiff against most crouch characters, thats the intention, but now crouch-moves can be hit with it if their hitbox go higher and some crouched characters can be hit blocking.

Its possible that Cody deserves to have a lower hitbox against crouch.

Its not an anti-fireball move or a zoning tool, its more of a mixup move. The start-up avoids fireballs. You can also use it against someone on wake-up at a distance. As long as the tornado doesn’t whiff its fairly safe. You can really screw up someone’s approach or interrupt their fireball games with a well-placed tornado.

It shouldn’t be punishable on hit there. I’ll revise that.

Thats true. I did use 120% increase a general rule very early on and didn’t look back. I think he deserves a higher back speed.

Thanks, I’ll look into those.

Here’s the problem: The way SF4 handles buffering mystifies me. I tried various ways to change the input time and it all resulted in dash -> fireball being impossible, even though it was using the exact same timer than SF3 where I can do it just fine.

A few more frames and its even harder to do than with the vanilla shoryuken input of SF4. Which makes absolutely no-sense.

In other words, unless there’s something I’m missing, its either the way it is now, or back to the SF4 shoryuken input. I’m personally not having difficulty with it, but maybe its just the way I input my shoryuken.

I’ll revert it if nobody likes it that way.

What is any 3rd Strike character’s game plan? Just don’t think of it as SF4. I never was a Cody player and I can’t predict its evolution in the 3rd Strike world by myself. People need to experiment against other players.

And throws in SF3 weren’t that great, in fact they did poor damage and not that much stun in general. Throws don’t just break blocks, they break parries. They’re an essential part of mixups and with higher walk-speed and faster dashes, there are more opportunities for throws than before. And if you get caught attempting to parry, you can’t tech.

Shotos have quick back-dashes. Seth doesn’t. Its all by design, yes.

I forgot to adapt the throw invincibility in back-dashes to the speed, though, yes, thats very likely. I’ll fix that.

Thanks for all the input. Its much appreciated.

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I didn’t think the dash thing was intentional because of the iframes thing for many parts, but when you look at the difference in dashes for actual 3S, while shotos are fast the difference for a lot of characters usually closer than you made it unless you play a really slow character or one with a noticeably longer distance backdash.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike#Dash

I realized my mistake with buffer to MK Super and why it was failing for me before, you need to be almost point blank, it has to hit I think on the first frame of the super to work so you can’t do like crLP - crLP - crLK - Super or buffer crLK from anywhere close to footsies positions or even frame trap distance, but he can actually confirm it with crLP - crLK - MK Super though the speed is incredibly quick and hard to actually see if the crLP hit or was blocked that is the case for everyone though and it can be done and thankfully the standard chains rules don’t apply anymore.

For throws in 3S it really depended on who you play. 3S Makoto can stun from neutral throw in ~4-5 throws. Alex can stun from any throw in 4-5 throws. Hugo can stun from his forward throw in 4throws easy. Necro 4-5 back throws to stun Ryu. Oro about 5 forward/neutral throws. Dudley can stun in about 6 neutral throws.

So for these characters it would be between ~170-250+ stun in SF4 terms from their respective throws, and that is without taking into consideration the fact that opponents are recovering stun at all times even knocked down.

As for what most 3S characters game plan is? Buffer crLK/crMK into super go for a mixup repeat for Chun and to a lesser extent Ken. Yun you go for dive kick shenanigans and TC into shoulder into super a lot or just TC directly into super or buffer into super off crMK can be seen occasionally or just raw super since it’s so safe. Makoto confirm crLK into Godanzuki and make people scared of her command throw stuff if you can do the 2nd part you can also go for her 1 touch stun combo with Tosonami, crouch LK into LP Hayate is utilized a lot as well. Dudley it’s his high low game since he can combo out of both high and low utilizing both his F+HK as well as his pretty good UOH confirms combo into SA3.

In general a lot of quick normal confirm into super or TC confirm into super type stuff goes on A LOT in SF3 at high level from what I’ve seen.

I can’t say whether or not any character is weak or strong in your mod I wont claim to because there is so much changed and obviously I’m not even sure how to play these chars yet :stuck_out_tongue:

I will say this though, don’t use parry as a catch all to make up for a characters weaknesses. There is a reason Q is widely considered terrible and you see Chun in every major top 8 often multiple times. A good character can utilize parry just as well as a bad character so its their unique tools that matter more.

Also, are you going to add an EX Knife Throw for Cody? Not sure what you’d do for that in the context of SF3 style but maybe slower startup + unblockable like a mini-denjin or much slower startup but unparryable like Akuma’s KKZ? Or just make it stupid fast both in startup recovery and flight speed. Hope you do EX Version of Ibuki’s dash and tsujigoe too since they don’t have one, I actually came up with an EX Tsujigoe just a few days ago.

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Well, all I can say about dashes is that I’ve used frame data from here http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/index.php as well as from the game itself using MAME and skipping frame by frame to make many of my decisions.

Not everyone deserves to have a fast back dash and Cody’s and Seth’s are very usable.

About the game plans: I think you got it right for the most part.

But the question is, what would you do to characters like Q in 3rd Strike? If all you do is copy-paste the features of the top tier, then you end up homogenizing the characters and they end up playing the same. Which is bad.

Its from that perspective that I’m not sure what to do with Cody. Despite how weak Q was, I found it a lot of fun to use and wouldn’t want him to be about hit-confirming low LK-jabs super combos or using MP->HP to combo into super. He was unique, and its something you want to keep to an extent.

And I’m not using parrying to cover their weaknesses. But some characters can use parrying more than others, and at least Cody has good punish options.

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I’m not saying Cody/Seth need more, just saying comparative you might need to adjust other chars. Hell Cody is probably going to by design be one of the slower speed characters so like 3S he’d be slower speed. Though perhaps a bit more distance wouldn’t hurt on some chars, as I said generally the slower speed backdashes have farther distance and maybe even (in at least Ibuki’s case) lower body invincibility. Again, if you’ve designed Cody/Seth/whomever with that stuff in mind great, just thinking aloud.

I’m not saying to copy the mechanics just make sure each characters actual tools themselves are strong, don’t rely on saying they can utilize parry. Q IS fun but he is undoubtedly weak, for example a big thing that could have been done for Q is just a slight speed up on his command throw and a bit better walk speed or forward dash speed and maybe better meter gain. He’d still have problems with his normals, wakeup and certainly still have his own unique strengths but he’d be a fair bit better with just those two changes. That doesn’t make him not FUN, you can have something be fun without them being strong or not fun and still strong. Hugo in SF4 is a blast but he has a ton of problems. Fei in SF4 is pretty dull but really strong.

With parry it’s a defensive option and most of the time in 3S you want to be on offensive. Forcing yourself to be on defense to really be effective can be a risk vs character, especially those with difficult to parry moves. It’s certainly one different characters can punish stuff differently and that should be considered, I just personally think in the context of SF3 it’s usually better to be on offense.

Things you could do is give some unique moves actual strengths. Like you made Cody’s knife pretty good for example, maybe make his gameplan based around getting the knife and make sure that the knife is strong enough that the opponent wants to make sure he doesn’t get it because he goes from an average character to extremely strong. Keep in mind in this case that it’s still quite easy to lose the knife so the strength of the move should be considered with things like losing knife and the costs of retaining the knife. Maybe make his EX knife pickup cost 2 bars in exchange for buffing the knife itself so he needs to either spend half his meter to get it or walk over and pick it up with his slower than average walk speed. You could also maybe given him the ability to cancel normals into knife pickup he can’t actually special cancel and thus make them safe, like his sweep or crMK, in addition this might open up combo options with moves he couldn’t combo out of normally, like crMK - knife pickup - crLP - EX MK Ruffian.

If you don’t want to emphasize or make him a character based on supers you could buff his ability to build meter a little and make him all about his pretty dang good (at least on his own, I dunno how they compare to others) EX moves.

Even then I’m not saying he needs ANY of this, it could be I just dunno how you intend him to be played by any means and I’ve got basically no experience in your mod yet. I’m just offering ideas for how you can balance other characters without homogenization. Make sure their unique aspects are strong and make sure that they can actually utilize those, but don’t skimp on the basic stuff. They need at least some basic stuff but that depends on how you’ve designed the basic ideas of the game.

One thing I would like for Cody is make his closeMK a command normal, it’s really fun and I want it even in normal USF4. Gives him a mid that moves him far forward on cancel and it’s a solid anti air and goes over lows. Maybe lower damage if you think it needs it since it’s 90 damage currently. Test it out and think about it for yourself first of course, just a suggestion I personally find a lot of fun to experiment with

Is it intentional that if Cody can’t followup criminal upper when the punch hits but CAN follow it up if only tornado hits?

Also, will there be taunt buffs? :3

Out of curiosity, how long are the quick rises in this mod and are the consistent across all characters or different like SF3? They felt really fast in the mod but it could just be deceptive animation, in SF3 they are varied but usually like 45-55 (though there are couple of sub 45s and Chun is a wopping 61F)

And are you going to include ability to kara some normals/command normals beyond the first frame like Makoto can do in 3S with sLK - karakusa. And have you considered adding the buffer system for links that omega has?

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Well, Cody does have some basic stuff and good combos. So thats something.

Taunts buffs kind of unlikely. There’s a few theoretical possibilities. I could give someone a damage boost that goes away when hit, thats the most likely one.

A one-time defense buff MIGHT be doable.

Its not out of the realm of possibility, at least.

Mmmh, thats a very interesting suggestion there. I really like it. This is something I’ll try.

10

Oops didn’t see you posted and I had edited my comment to add a few things:

One thing I would like for Cody is make his closeMK a command normal, it’s really fun and I want it even in normal USF4. Gives him a mid that moves him far forward on cancel and it’s a solid anti air and goes over lows. Maybe lower damage if you think it needs it since it’s 90 damage currently. Test it out and think about it for yourself first of course, just a suggestion I personally find a lot of fun to experiment with

Is it intentional that if Cody can’t followup criminal upper when the punch hits but CAN follow it up if only tornado hits?

Out of curiosity, how long are the quick rises in this mod and are the consistent across all characters or different like SF3? They felt really fast in the mod but it could just be deceptive animation, in SF3 they are varied but usually like 45-55 (though there are couple of sub 45s and Chun is a wopping 61F)

Are you going to include ability to kara some normals/command normals beyond the first frame like Makoto can do in 3S with sLK - karakusa. And have you considered adding the buffer system for links that omega has?

Also, I just realized another cool aspect of Cody (and I’m not complaining I just think it’s a neat coincidence but keeps him unique in his own way). In addition to not having a target combo, of the currently completed characters Cody is the only one who has no ability to alter jump arc. Again, not a complaint I actually think you probably should keep that one to keep him unique. IF you did add a way to alter jump arc I’d either suggest a square jump or long jump sort of thing with his F+HK in or bring in his FF knee drop via jumping LK type move that alters arc but not like a dive kick just changes the parabola. I thought it was neat happenstance, at first I thought Dudley wouldn’t have it then I noticed you added air thunderbolt (ex only though).

I am curious about how you designed each character and what you felt their style is and how you should approach them.

For taunt buffs, you could do like move property changes not just a straight damage buff. Maybe make a move EX version for free post taunt, give it extra juggle potential, make it more invincible, do more stun, do a wall bounce, ect. Make it more like how angry scar works than just 3S’ style of a damage % or health boost. You could even potentially make one taunt do something different than another taunt, though I think keeping it universal would probably be best it is an option to further change a player choice on selection screen. Of course that said, I usually turn off taunt playing Cody due to fake stone :stuck_out_tongue: (now that I think about it though, you could maybe have a taunt do a feint move like fake badstone!)

11

Man, I wish people gave as much feedback as you do on other characters, because Cody is going to get worked on a lot more than the others at this rate :slight_smile:

Quick-stand should have the same difference than their normal SF4 wake-up, for every characters, with only up to 3 frames adjustments.

There are 2 kara-like adjustments I’ve made already (which are only LIKE kara, they’re not kara), Makoto gets to cancel her standing LK and Ken can cancel his crouch HK into shoryukens with more range. I don’t mind giving characters kara-like abilities to open up opportunities.

A buffer system is out of the question. There are much fewer links here anyway. Most important links anyway should now be links into SUPERS, which have techniques (pianoing) to pull them off reliably.

Intentional.

Oni was redesigned around this principle quite a bit, with a “taunt” like move (that uses meter) and that changes your next special into a more powerful one.

Thing is, some characters already use the “2nd stance” (cody uses it for knife) and you can’t have more than 2, so I can’t do this with all the characters in the cast.

I don’t really have an answer to that. I go with what feels right. All I can do with my long experience of 3rd Strike and general knowledge of various competitive fighting games. Sometimes I go overboard, though. There were quite a few things that got cut because of it.

I didn’t answer every thing you said but I’m keeping notes. You have some ideas worth exploring.

12

Hey i found a weird glitch with akuma. I was playing against my friends guy and did demon flip k follow up, as he did elbow, he got beat out but i got frozen in the air not being able to do anything. He had to hit me out of the air to get unstuck.
ill get the vid uploaded as soon as i can.

Edit: Here is the vid.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SU5gTmcIIXs

13

Thank you, no need for a video, I found the problem, and it will be fixed in the next update.

14

Well when I worked on SSF4X and another project with a few other devs that never came to fruition due to loss of interest generally what we did was map out the character concept, what their gameplan should be, their archetype basis THEN developed mechanics based around that but done a lot by feel of course. Fun was the main concept but you don’t want to create mishmash characters of course, good to have a basic gameplan and design documents. Anyways even still AFTER you’ve created the characters I’d think you’d kind of know how their tools are best utilized as a cohesive design right? You’ve seen what they have and know what you did so I’d figure you’d be able to piece it together.

Annnyyyways I did have a few ideas for things, not saying add em but they could inspire you. Not sure what all is already in the game though and you might have already thought of these.

Ibuki - EX Dash wouldn’t be just a dash but rather an actual attack, think Richtors tackle castlevania. maybe could still pass through opponents and be like 2-3 hits to make it harder to parry. Can she cancel EX DP into air normals like 3S?

Seth - his NJ MP as a command normal usable in Forward Jump for crossup body splash like Gief.

Guy - Bushin Chain works like SFxT version, last hit is jump cancelable and has a version of his izuna drop with a strike hitbox like Rose’ soul throw and he can combo into it off of stuff like this. If you didn’t already do it make sure his Elbow drop from bushin flip uses a different damage table and make it do chip damage when done from bushin flip. Close HK as a command normal would make a good anti air.

Cody - DP input version of Zonk can be feinted like Makoto’s Hayate but retains upper body invincibility. Holding the button down will keep him in place up to 30F then auto releases, can cancel starting on 8-10F cancels into a 6F recovery animation. Shouldn’t allow any new combos but could be used as a feint or just a dodge. Final Fight Chain added with LP-MP-MP-HP knocks down on hit but only low enough to really combo into super or EX Criminal Upper or fast normal, not usable with knife. IF you decide to add the turn around option (could be interesting as a way to bait a parry) let it be done off both LP-MP-Turn Around and LP-MP-MP-Turn Around and let a link out of it into a jab again just do like a max of 1 more rep before out of range. Knife sLP -> sMP target combo. sMP special cancelable on both hits as self contained hitconfirm.

One more idea for Cody calling back to your idea to maybe increase the hitbox downward to hit crouching, the other option is removing his pushbox on waist/chest, expand head pushbox down a bit and make him able to hop over crouching opponents but not standing opponents.

Yang - Command Dash in mid air would be pretty cool, maybe EX version can cancel into air normals.

Oni - sLK - sMK target combo and maybe make F+MK a bit more lower body invincible, not fully but move the hurtbox back a bit more on the leg. F+HP forward body projectile invincible to be better at cancel out projectiles. F+F+HP does an EX version of his F+HP that is multi hit and can cancel out multihit projectiles.

15

I do know what my characters are capable of and their game plans but Cody probably least of all since I’ve never played with him against players, yet I need to keep Cody true in some ways to himself, in this game or others.

All characters are based on their previous incarnations to decide what “type” of character it is, but it needs to be adapted to 3rd Strike.

There are so many stages of development. You add everything new and the big changes, then you add SO many details that makes the character 3rd Strike ready, and only after all of it do you have the faintest idea of what he can really do.

My point is, its much more complicated when you’ve set so many rules already and worse is, I’m bad at explaining myself.

But I do think I know my characters well and I think I know their game plans. The 3rd Strike life is just a little bit messier.

And lets be honest, some characters like Oro in 3rd Strike had no sense of planning whatsoever. That was one terribly designed character.

I should probably make introductory videos to showcase each character’s options, basic mixups and practical combos.

16

That video idea is probably a good idea, oro and twelve I think have cohesive designs but for the wrong game. They feel to me at least like they should be more in darkstalkers than SF3. Especially twelve. Oro it’s mostly just Tengu stone I feel doesn’t really fit into the street fighter style but then again a lot of SF3 moves really don’t feel that way due to how different it is from Alpha and SF2 and SF4 (which of course designed based on ST)

Also had some other ideas for Cody (forgive me, I got a lot because he is the char I have the most experience with by a large margin followed by Makoto but she is already a 3S char :P)

Make Cody’s far tornado recover faster and work like a projectile so he can use it similar to a shield like Aegis Reflector. Would let him walk forward while stopping fireballs or set it up for knockdown pressure. Not sure if this is even feasible due to the VFX systems.

Since all of Cody’s badstone recover at the same time and startup at the same speed and they startup too slow on quick rise with rolls backwards movement you can’t really use em as effectively as meaties so there is little reason to do anything but HP Badstone most of the time, why not make each one fly at a different arc. LP = Current HP arc, MP = higher arc, HP = Highest arc. The MP/HP versions would be active longer thus allowing more frame advantage and also a potential anti air but likely the MP version would whiff at many distances against crouching and HP might whiff on standing at many ranges. The only thing really lost there is the ability to occasionally counter some slides at specific distances with LP/MP Badstone falling but that’s really situational. Alternately just speed up the startup on LP/MP so HP is the slowest. Still keep em slow but maybe let LP combo from Counterhit clsHP like EX Badstone. I would recommend buffing the charge times and/or benefits.

In general I feel almost all charging moves in SF are fairly weak for the length of time it takes. I think Oni’s chargable fireball is like one of the only really viable ones in all of SF4 currently. So I would suggest speeding up charge times and probably buffing the benefits of these moves given the fact the person is putting themselves in a vulnerable and immobile counterhit state for so long.

Another alternate option for a direction to take Cody that would open him up a lot is a command throw. It fits with his style and gives him a way to keep people from blocking and it’d be kind of unique compared to the other chars. Only seth has a pure command grab at the moment, Yang/Makoto it’s a tenshin they can combo out of and Akuma/Guy it’s a demon flip kind of thing.

For Dudley, thought about adding an EX Rose Throw? Like Down + Down + Down + HP+HK or even just DD+HP+HK? Make it throw like 2 roses at the same time but one flies slightly slower so they are a little delayed between hits thus giving more frame advantage and potentially a combo out of a move you normally can’t combo out of. Alternately EX Rose throw could hit overhead, I’m not 100% sure how a frame perfect unblockable might work in SF4 but I do know there is absolute guard so if you are even 1F off it wouldn’t be an unblockable just super hard to know which hits first. Double Rose throw with delay between each one would be good vs parries too while OH would probably be scarier for setups.

If you do Hugo will you adjust his crouching HK to return to being an overhead followed by a low on later frames? Also I always thought his sMK should hit three times, the animation and oomph of the move makes it feel to me like he should hit one more time when the foot hits the ground, it looks like a kind of stomp.

I did notice you already had the Seth stuff I suggested, my bad. Interesting you went with D+LK for splash I’d have thought you just go simply with D+MP.

Any characters you think you might do the oro style double super? Where if you do 2 buttons you get an even stronger version of the same super for more meter?

I’m not trying to tell you what to do by any means, just throwing ideas and seeing if maybe one of em you like.

17

hmm, this is really a good mod, can learn something from this.

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I forgot to mention, this mod is super fun to mess around with. Thanks SFJake

Also i found another glitch :wink:
if seth does cr.HP into ex hundred kicks, seth will be sent to full screen away from the opponent and will freeze, while the opponent is stuck in the “getting hit” animation forever.

19

I have plans for Hugo. You’ll have to see on that one. But since when was his c.HK ever a low in later frames?

By the way, the next character updates will bring all remaining 3rd Strike characters. (thats not for a little while, though!)

Thanks. A little juggle count screw up.

20

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Hugo_(3S)

I had the timing backwards. I didn’t play Hugo and I can’t recall ever seeing his crHK used in 3S, plus I’m HARDLY an SF3 expert I only played it very very very casually as I only really got into FGs with SF4 (though I did play a fair bit of CVS2 with friends back in the day we were all shit and couldn’t even tell you what a link was :P)