I was watching videos (Chun’s trial combos), and wow, her ultra 2 does some crap damage. Does anyone else think it might be better to use Ultra 1 instead? I know everyone was super excited about Kikosho, but I’m wondering if it’s better to at least have the threat of going through fireballs from near-full screen. Heck, even a partial juggle in the corner with Ultra 1 would probably do just as much damage as Kikosho.
Maybe I’m just crazy.
Well you are better off with an ultra you can actually land often lol.U1 is gonna be for blanka , honda, and some fireballers.
What concerns me most is that the damage dealt in the videos I’ve seen are with full ultra meter. I hope it’s not scaled down too much for half meter…
Why pick an ultra “to stick with”, use the ultra that fits the matchup better.
you dont know what you are talking about. Low damage? It is very easy to land. If it was more powerful, it would be overpowered. Also, her ultra 2 should be used in combo. s.hk to ex legs to ultra does like 480 damage. But maybie you cant do combos? Thats why you complain?
Here Ultra 2 is one of the best ultra 2 in the games.
Chun U2>Balrog U2
Chun U2>Akuma U2
Chun U2>Ryu U2
Chun U2>ken U2
Chun U2<Rufus U2(yes, Rufus U2 is also better than Chuns U1)
Chun U2-Bison U2(both are very good)
Chun U2>Gouken
and so on…
Copy pasta from the Fellowship thread.
U1 Housenka:
Ryu, Ken, Blanka, Honda, Gief, Seth, Sagat, Hakan, Ibuki
Ryu, Ken, and Sagat are fireball control. All three characters corner juggle properly, so that’s cool. Blanka and Honda lose tools when she has Housenka (Blanka Ball and Headbutt), so that’s good in controlling those matchups. Gief simply because he juggles, and to take away full screen lariats for building meter. Seth loses both Sonic Boom and C.FP against Housenka. Hakan because he corner juggles and to nail him if he tries to oil up from full screen. Ibuki corner juggles, and she won’t be able to throw any air kunai’s when Chun has Housenka at the ready.
Kikousho:
Juri, Chun, Dudley, Rufus, Abel, Fuerte, Bison, Balrog, Cammy, Fei, Akuma, DJ, Hawk, Gen, Adon, Dan, Guy, Rose, Sakura
Characters who don’t Housenka corner juggle, and don’t otherwise give you an opportunity to ultra them. Cammy is sort of iffy - free Housenka on blocked Canon Spike, but Kikousho will probably be more useful here.
Either/Or:
Vega, Viper, Gouken, Cody, Makoto
Vega corner juggles with Housenka, and also gives you a few opportunities to hit grounded Housenka, but Kikousho could be nice as well. Viper…Housenka mainly to take away Seismo spam. Gouken…fireball control, but he doesn’t corner juggle. Cody and Makoto, don’t know. Makoto corner juggles with Housenka, but I don’t think she will offer any other opporunities to hit ultra, nor will it discourage her from doing things. We’ll see.
OK OK no need to get pissy, I was just sharing my worries. Obviously, I don’t have the game yet (I don’t pirate) so I’m just going off of what I see in videos.
Very good info and perspective, thanks sir.
In this and some of your other posts, you seem to be putting an awful lot of weight into the Ultra being easy to land. Yeah, that is nice and all, but there are other things to consider, such as how the Ultra fits into Chun’s gameplay and matchups. You posted earlier that you are coming to Chun in SSFIV due to her Ultra 2 being so easy to land, but I would encourage you to look beyond that one move, as I think it will make your experience playing Chun more rewarding and enjoyable. Not a criticisim, just an observation.
On a tangent to the point provided by AmishOpiate, relying on Ultras to win matches in this game is a tactic less emphasized than in SF4…and I’m glad it was made that way. U2 may be easy to land, but there are many matchups (not just against shotos) where simply having a loaded U1 would shut down vital options for the opponent - something U2 won’t be able to do. The main reason why I like U2 is how it is guaranteed additional damage for matchups where U1 cannot be fully used.
Likewise, I agree very much that playing Chun is most rewarding when taking advantage of her diverse and powerful normals. A majority of her normals have their own best uses given the right matchup, the right situation and the exact right time. In fact, as much as I like hearing how universal her df.lk is as an anti-air, I hope it won’t take away the thrill of knowing which normal to use as an AA for different situations. That was one of the things that made her unique compared to people with DPs and was what winning by playing her as a “wall of pokes” (as some of the pro Chun players here would describe it) very satisfying.
The damage factor (as well as losing some specific punish opportunites) did kind of kill my enthusiasm for U2. I’ll have to think real hard about the matchups where I’d use it over U1. I’m generally reserved in tacking on ultra at the end of a combo as well and I’m usually not itching to pop it off unless I think the added damage will be worthwhile instead of holding onto it for later/keeping the opponent in check.
Ryu’s Metsu Hadoken didn’t really come off as scary until either his revenge meter was damn near full or the combo into it would’ve been guaranteed to close out the round. I feel the same way about Chun’s new ultra. It’ll allow for more mobility but I feel that’s more suited for more proactive players than myself.
Edit:
Housenka will juggle on 95% of the opponents if you use Skatan’s technique to combo into it.
I say 95% because I still haven’t gotten it to fully juggle on Fuerte without using the distance technique instead.
df+LK juggle into U2 is fun.
Didn’t know you can do that. I have to go try it.
U2 does do crap damage, but it does some good chip damage, possibly better than U1 but not sure. It is a lot easier to connect it. Which Ultra to use will be situational as listed before.
df+LK has an improved hitbox, so basically as an actual anti-air it is reliable. Even in vanilla you can beat Sagat’s j.MP with df+LK when you time it right. The best part is if it hits the opponent and in their in the air it’s a free U2 and because its a single hit it does not damage scale the kikosho as much as short short EX legs so you’ll pretty much get the full ultra. Even if df+LK trades, Chun recovers fast enough to kikosho and win the trade. Also you waste zero meter which you can save for her very useful super.
And of course if you don’t have ultra you can dash EX legs for the free damage as well.
Just cause her U2 is one of the best U2 in the game doesn’t make it a better to pick it over U1. Just cause it’s super easy to land doesn’t make it better than other ultras.
far mp into ex legs to kikosho is delicious
I would really stress this, especially now that Ultras aren’t blind select (though that isn’t a problem offline).
No one is forcing you to pick th new Ultra. I for one am done with seeing my Ultra whiff in the corner or always being on the lookout to punish a fireball, which rarely happens since a lot of people aren’t stupid enough to just keep throwing them out once you have Ultra anyway. I will just take the combo opportunity from anywhere on the screen, no matter how crappy the damage is. I win 90% of my matches without even using Ultra 1 anyway, so I should be fine.
I for one also stress this. Kikosho is nice and all but in the Ryu Matchup, I still want my Housenka just to strike the fear into people using that Fireball.
The damage on the ultra alone isn’t too great but those numbers from comboing into it look nice. I haven’t been able to get my hands on Super chun yet but would you say she has more “comeback potential” with U2? I know ultra damage was nerfed in general but chun was one of the characters who usually had to stay on her toes all game and sometimes in sf4 there just weren’t reliable ways to land that ultra.
As long as you have at least 1 EX Gauge, you should have no problem landing Ultra 2 at all. So yes, in that sense, it is a great “comeback” Ultra.
Problem is, and I think this is what Skatan was pointing out, why would you use Ultra 2 if it makes the matchup harder? We all know Housenka is very very good at dealing with campy fireballing so why use Kikosho in the matchup? I’m sure with time I might figure out other ways to deal with the matchup so that I can use Kikosho but for right now, I’ll use Housenka in the Sagat/Ken/Ryu matchup.