Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but it’s likely it has, the game does have simple mode. There has already been a big raging discussion on this in regards to fighting games having serious flaws (entrance wise) that should be addressed, something that’s crippling the whole Japanese games industry. Japanese games are becoming very exclusive requiring a lot of assumed knowledge which isn’t that common to be enjoyed fully. Todays kids didn’t grow up in the arcade or even in the 16 bit era which featured a lot of gaming experiences which would be considered quite brutal by todays standards due to lack of saving, cheats and limited lives.
On the bigger scale, I think some of even the fighting community are growing tired of UMvC3, a lot of high level games really just come down to who finds an opening to ToD first and who’s forced to pop X-Factor first.
Very true, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Some people like SF characters for the same reason. You don’t have to know a character’s backstory to like them. (Although it was pure coincidence that Cable was a top 4 in MvC2 AND I loved everything about him…sprite, voice, comics, cartoon) Although MvC fans got looked out for (sentinel, strider, even fucking shuma gorath), the game does feel like it needs more people. Why wasnt the leader of the X-Men put in, Cyclops? Why isn’t the mascot of Capcom, Captain Commando, in? Why didn’t they put Cable in? And Ken not being in is a crock. Those characters could still be in with everyone else and the cast would still be diverse
This game was doomed for the majority of MvC2 players the moment that so many people with teleports were introduced and normals that lead ground bounces which combo’ed from. These two basic things probably turned a bunch of people off from the game. Then you add X-factor and Dark Phoenix and…yeah…For all the shit people give Wesker, block your damn ankles and watch out for your head. Phoenix though is just such stupid thing.
All in all, marvel 3 was mishandled, All the stuff we got on the disc for Ultimate was supposed to be DLC, and they thought they were doing us a favor by releasing it for less on a stand alone disc and were wrong. But I don’t think it is fair to call the game a failure yet. Mortal Kombat did sell a lot more copies, but I argue the candle that burns twice as bright burns out twice as fast. At the last Michigan Ranbats it was advertised that tournys would be held for AE, UMvC3, KOF13, and MK9. Every game was played except MK9 because not enough people showed up. EVO champ. Perfect Legend has even hinted he will no longer play the game because there isn’t enough money in it. UMvC3 hasn’t sold a ton of copies yet, but the game is so popular on streams and at tourneys that I think the game will sell better over time.
no way in hell, games sell better when they are new. it doesn’t matter if the umvc3 tourneys are the best and mk dies.
if those numbers are even close to the real sales umvc3 is a failure.
Yeah 2nd hand and discounted stock won’t help Capcom- selling a game week 1 full price does. It’s worth noting that Mortal Kombat is still#1 in Russia. It’s been a worldwide smash everywhere except Japan and the surrounding countries.
Content and marketing is what’s making the difference here, and the sooner it’s realised across the board by SNK, Capcom, and to an extent Namco that MK isn’t doing these numbers just cos of blood and guts. MK devs realise the the competitive community are an important seal of approval and early opinion formers, but the majority of consumers want hours and hours and hours of new content, of which high skilled multiplayer or online should not be counted.
Seriously, I cannot express enough how most people will get a game like UMVC3, complete it, see how limited the endings are, then trade it in and probably not buy another fighting game. The mismatch between the high profile nature of the characters and complete lack of developing them was such a waste. If ever there was a chance to get the average Xbox owner into Capcom fighting games, this was it- comprehensive beginner mode, in depth cinematic story mode, cinematic character endings…
That’s the kind of stuff that sells a game to the wider public, not increasing from 4345390 characters they wont play to 4345402 characters and finely rebalancing the play. That’s for when you are trying to make your niche userbase even smaller and more refined.
Anyway I guess overall Marvel 3 has to be considered a success if you combine the two versions, it’s down well over 1m worldwide, which is certainly better than any other Marvel game by Capcom.
For the most part you are true. But like every other media, every once of a while you get a sleeper. A game, Cd, or movie that never sells a lot at release but has a steady sales over time that add up over time. A prime example is any movie or CD that is considered a “cult classic”, TV shows that do terrible at it’s first run then become a run away sucess in syndication, Even shows that come back from the dead like Family Guy. Marval has three things going for it that gives it potential.
#!. The silly mag every Gamestop card holder gets, Game Informer, Just put MvC3 in it’s top 50 Games of 2011, the only other fighting game on that list is MK. Your Game Stop Zombie will see the used copy of MvC3 for less than 20 bucks and buy it and will, while researching how to play the game will come across UMvC3 and will, down the road buy it once they fall in love with the game. #2 The fact that UMvC3 dropped so soon after the first, there is a lot of copies of the first in the used market, for cheap and that will introduce people to the game system at a greate price point. #3 UMvC3 is still the Main Event on most streams and people who are brought into the FGC thru better selling games like MK9 and KOF13, and now all the new people getting into SSF4AE because you can now buy that game new for $20 at gamestop are going to get esposed to the game by finding this site, watching streams ect, because this game is going to be played for a long time to come.
cant agree with you since any 2nd hand store I go into has more used copies of MK then any orher fighting game. MK is exzctly the kind of game once you finish it andd see all the endings and finish story mode that you trade the game in for something new
Nickelodeon cancelled that, the DVDs and merchandise sell like hot-cakes.
That’s not UMvC though, the majority of the fighting game community like it because it’s fresh and different, but there is a lot of negativity/flaws surrounding the game which will likely kill it’s classic appeal, it won’t ever over-take MvC2 in that department.
Jeez, talk about missing the point. Nether Realms makes money from every brand new copy sold, and they have sold a lot.
UMVC3 has sold relatively few brand new copies, of which Capcom makes money on the new copies sold.
The point I was making is that courting the casual core gamer who are what is called ‘content tourists’ means you need to provide content, stuff to see or do. yes these people will often plough through the content then part exchange it (you know the type, the guys that brag about ‘completing’ COD in less than a day then trading it in).
It’s no good chasing the casual non-fighting game player then making a traditional fighting game, or paying to license characters that appeal to the broader market if the game is inaccessible to them. Even good, intelligent gamers I know thing Marvel is random and a button mashers game- the misconceptions of what Marvel and Ultimate Marvel bring to the table for the consumer are exacerbated by how Mortal Kombat explicitly has all these modes and thing to see and do, as WELL as the supposed ‘seal of approval’ by getting in Evo and being played at tournaments.
So yeah, you may see lots of MKs sold. But that’s because it sold MORE than everything else (by some way) and sold to the right people. People who wanted a solid week/month/period of time of entertainment and sold it when that had been done.
Marvel sold fewer copies, and to core fans who are unlikely to sell their copies, and interested casuals who would largely feel confused, alienated and short changed, imo.
Umm, UMvC3 sold less than a tenth of MvC3 for a reason. The game is still as casual-unfriendly as it gets (and the atrocious netcode doesn’t help either), and new people who get their hands on MvC3 now still have little to no incentive to buy Ultimate.
As great as “cult classics” are , it won’t help capcom if their game becomes very popular over time for a select group of people, umvc3 is already popular in the FGC which is a niche.
About family guy I think an analogy is not really good here (maybe I’m too strict) but tv shows and games are not the same, of the top of my head a tv show keeps producing content in it’s lifespan and videogames don’t. even capcom videogames that are coming 6 months with the “ultimate” “super” “ultra” version are not the same.
Even if this zombie picks up mvc3 (instead of the other 49 games in that list) and falls in love with the game it doesn’t mean that he/she will buy a new umvc3 copy “out of love” when a used copy would be available by the time.
Also, again based on the premise that the numbers are close to the truth then most people that bought mvc3 didn’t fall in love with the game.
Not if people don’t find enough value to buy the new game, I don’t know if a lot of used mvc3 copies will help the new game. Picking up mvc3 at $8 or whatever is a great purchase but if you are not really hardcore then you are not probably buying umvc3 , at least not new which is what capcom wants. And if you are hardcore about fighting games you already have umvc3 or already know you don’t want it.
I think you are overestimating the market influence of streams, how many people watched evo finals for marvel ? like 12-15k ? Even if no-one had the game and they went to buy it new inmediatly it won’t turn the game from a failure to a hit.
ssf4 didnt sell 2 million only 1 million which is much lower than vanilla,and ae sold alot less that ssf4,capcom knows the next version of the game will sell alot less because casual gamers wont buy that version unless they put in another fav in there,if any thing if I had to guess a number umvc3 sold about 700k at least that about it isnt 1 million but its kinda close,I dont think it did awful I think it did ok,pretty sure they wanted it to hit 1 million,tbh game companies only really talk about sales if its 1 million or higher unless its dlc or something but the dlc,also even though they wanted to bring casual and hardcore together I dont think it worked to well I mean a decent player would destroy a person who doesnt play it even if the other player got xfactor and wesker,capcom wants to appeal to casual and hardcore and I see no problem with that because there are other games to play if its to casual for people (kof13)
Not missing the point at all. You are also failing to note that week one NR was dumping copies of MK9 on amazon for less than $40 to inflate their sales numbers. One thing also to consider is the sales that are being reported for the game, are they the numbers sold from the store to the consumer or the sales from distributors to retail stores? If it is the latter then those sales include copies that are still sitting on the shelf and not being played. Also what is the purchase agreement between NR and the larger outlets like Walmart. Many times the larger stores like that include a “charge back” provision on items. if there is an excess of unsold stock then the company has to pay the retail store back a set amount. This can cripple a company if they make a bad gamble. As far as getting a Seal of approval for being at EVO, that means nothing for several reasons. MK is so well known that anyone watching the streams already fall into the 3 camps (Hater, Fanboy, and couldn’t care) At SCR Mortal Kombat had far fewer viewers than KOF, Big names are dropping out of the game to pursue games with bigger pots. The Hype has dropped off for the game, it is by no means dead, and it is a good thing that MK sells well. MK brings new people into the FGC. If only 10% of MK players buy another FG, it is a victory for everyone.
The big money makers for the companies is the fluff, the DLC. It cost a lot to print a disc, distribute the game, ect. But putting a costume up in the online shops this makes tons of money. Now that you can Buy AE new for $20 and $16 used @ gamestop they will make extra from selling outfits.
If you think Marval is dead, I suggest u check out Lil Pimp from an event that MK was canceled because not enough people showed up to play, but Marval ran over because way more people showed up than expected [media=youtube]ZgW9ihkc5yg[/media]
Good post, you make some good points. You also make some pretty meaningless ones- this is about Marvel as a money maker, not as a comunity event. MVC3 could have had 168798 entrants but it wouldn’t have made UMVC3 or MK sell any more or fewer units, directly.
Again, Capcom and any other publisher make their money from selling games at retail. That’s all that matters. If Mortal Kombat sold a lot more than Tekken 6, KOF XIII, UMVC3 and every other fighting game out there, you have to look at what they offer that the others don’t. MK may be a household name, but if anything Marvel is more so, and the recognition factor for the roster is pretty much unparalled. It’s the level of content and game hours that makes MK appealling as a buy.
Gotta disagree with you, my point is that it is too early to call Marval a failure. It has the chance to be a money maker over the long haul as it has a stronger ability to hold onto someones attention once it has it, and will gain more over time. The idea that the only money made is during release is silly, If that was so important why was NR dumping them on amazon below $40 week 1? How much has NR paid in marketing since its release (you don’t think all those game awards on cable TV were free, do you)? And sales do not equal profit,. MK v.s DC sold 1.8 million and Midway still went bankrupt. As far as content and game hours with MK, those are one shots. How many times is someone going to play the story mode? I’m sure the average MvC3 player spends much more time in the training mode then the average MK player spends in Story mode. MK put all these great features into the game and yet again forgot to put a good fighting game that will be played for more than a year or two. People are still playing Sf4, still playing SF3, still playing SF2, still playing MvC2…find me someone doing a money match for MK vs DC
My apologies if I’m repeating anyone’s argument here, but I think one of MVC3’s biggest flaws, vanilla or not, was the distinct lack of a real “Training Mode” to teach beginner’s the game’s core concepts.
MVC in general is a high execution game. Coming from an amateur as I am, the game demands you not only memorize a number very lengthy combostrings, but understand the unique mechanics of stuff like flight cancelling, mix-ups, option selects, and character-specific mechanics like Doom’s airdashes or how to level Frank up in team combos. Someone on the first page mentioned that newbs are more likely to jump into SFIV and eke out a few wins with Dragon Punch spamming, which is true to a degree.
Unfortunately, Capcom could care less about carrying the fundamentals of their fighting games to a new generation, despite having more than enough resources and disc space to put together a proper Mission Mode teaching zoning or move priority or tiger knee cancelling. Instead, Mission Mode is a bunch of combo challenges and gamers have to penetrate forums like ours so filled with fighting jargon, many inevitably not feeling the effort is worth it.
To pros like Sanford Kelly, this might be a good thing because it separates the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. But it isn’t in the long run, because the community ultimately gets stagnant, fewer folks pay attention to tourneys, and game developers care less and less about fighting games in favor of more profitable routes like making FPSes.
The worst part? Fighting games aren’t as hard to get into as others think. The jargon is simple if explained properly, the tactics manageable with the right instruction. Capcom failed UMVC3 because it refused to carry the torch the fighting community kept alive for their product in terms of actually tutoring the new generation.