I dont get it how is he bottom tier wise but Chikyuu (Sp?) made him look untouchable at Evo2k2 last year in US vs JPN Team battle?
its hard to win with him, yet he has goo things, like his walk is smaller then some crouching ppl =/ he airdashes… but he takes damage like a pussy… and he can only jump, airdash, poke and then some EX shit… its hard to win with him
he has very limited comboabillity, and deals next to no damage.
hugo and alex are his nightmare matchups solely because of the fact that they have monster hp. (and tripletaunt q? let’s not go there ;( )
twelve wins by throwing opponents offguard with its gimmicks, but you can only do so many things to do that- and when your opponent figures it out, gg.
and for any kind of theoryfighting, you should always seperate the player from the character. it’s chikyuu that’s good, not twelve. i wish all the people in the tierstructure thread realised that as well… i’m sick of people saying ‘you can win with xyz, as long as you use him/her right’. oh, fucking really?
Twelve has to play keepaway all game with flying and pokes. If you can catch twelve or pin him in the corner you can take back all the damage he’s done to you in a couple seconds. Twelve vs 3-taunt Q (and he will get the 3 taunts, since twelve plays runaway) takes forever. Neither character has a big advantage here. Twelve can do no damage to Q, but since Q is the slowest character in the game, it’s incredibly hard to catch twelve. I’ve had more than 1 Q vs twelve match timeout when I was playing Q.
While it’s very hard to win with 12, the damage he does is all jib-jabs - he doen’t have to get too close either - seen as he has some good range moves.
Doesn’t really do damaging combos, but if you nag and nag with him you’ll notice that he does do a chunk of damage, but that all comes over time, everyone else will just lay in with a simple combo and equalize the game.
Unless you train your opponent, his air-dash tactics will be clocked in no time and that means no hope for 12. All I can say is keep the air-dash low and use all the range he has. 12 DOES have excellent pokes, even if you have to work harder to land 'em. 
So in other words 12 is like the Strider/Doom of MvC2. :wasted:
Gotta work hard for the win.
No, because Strider/Doom is effective when you’re good at it. Twelve is never effective.
apoc also said some nice shit about any character being competitive to a certain degree. Twelve is a beast when C plays him, just recognize.
What kind of talk is this? An excellent player does well with a crap character. So what? What does that prove? That’s right, absolutely nothing.
Twelve is junk, and that’s all there is to it. The fact that a very good player can beat some people with him doesn’t change anything.
What kind of talk is this? An excellent player does well with a crap character. So what? What does that prove?
Uhh, that proves that playing a character(a low tier even) to their full potential can actually get you wins?
"He’s just way better with the character…
sure he has better strategy and knows what his character can do and when
If you’ve watched the japanese play low tier characters, they use every tool*no matter how few or limited.
even apoc in evo2k2 dvd wit rog, beastin like a mofo…
and in another game…
haters claim you can’t win with low tier in mvc2, but look at the way justin wong uses his low tier, maxed the f*ck out.
yes his strategy is 10 times better than avg player, but thats just it, he uses his characters moves the way they were meant to be used.
marvel is still progressing to this day wth…
From reading your post, it’s clear you either missed the point or don’t understand what tiers are.
It means nothing if a great player can use a crappy character to beat crappy people. How many tournaments has Twelve won in Japan? How many times has Twelve beaten Yun, Ken, or that blue mutant whore in a tournament to claim victory? Do you think maybe there’s a reason Twelve doesn’t win tournaments and that he is ranked so low? Could it be because the other characters stomp him into the ground?
Twelve is a bad fighter. He sucks. You can learn Twelve, and then spend the same amount of time on almost anyone else and be better with the other person. This is a fact.
I don’t like to try arguing facts when i’m only stating my opinion so…
sure certain characters in certain games will never win a tournament. Put alot of effort into them and really learn:
options in all match-ups
best moves for best scenarios
ghetto tricks ect
and it’s likely that your sucess % will improve greatly. The (lower tier|)characters take MORE effort, it’s that simple.
I’ve spend time in fighting games playing as “low tier” characters. I am still able to get wins because i’m all about learning the character inside and out.
I’m learning to use Twelve because it’s really satisfying to actually win with him.
I like the way you call all the top US 3s players crap. 
And 12 gets ranked low because it’s harder to win with him than with anyone else, it doesn’t mean he’s crap.
When you start beating ppl with 12, the victory is much more satisfying…at least you worked for the victory, rather than use a stupid-ass cheap combo twice to win. coughYuncough
And that’s coming from a Chun-Li player… :rolleyes:
Tch, YES.
Yeah, what else could “a great player beating crappy players” refer to other than a specific instance of the US 3rd strike players getting defeated?
If only you would apply your ability to read between the lines on a bigger scale, maybe we would have world peace right now.
You were one yerself :rolleyes: but then you went to the total darkside and turned to yun who yes is the cheapest char in the game stupid genei Jin.
Just pointing that out ;).
But the difference is that you don’t hear me complaining about how “so and so are cheap”. Just pointing that out. :rolleyes:
Seriously, if you play Chun-Li/Ken/Yun then you’re not in a position to complain about the other characters’ cheapness, period.
That “Yun is the cheapest” thing is ridiculous, Chun-Li and Ken are just as bad, if not worse. Care to tell me why Yun doesn’t get more play in occident if he’s -that- cheap?
Total darkside? Yun at least requires decent execution, which incidently more than 50% of the people I hear complaining don’t have. Hmm, I wonder…
Whoa chill man you take it too serious heh I just think Yun genei jin is kinda cheap only when fully mastered coz damage is too good for such a small bar and the fact you can have another one activated within seconds :D.
Oh yeah incase your last comment about execution was directed at me I can actually do genei jin combos and play yun a bit but I prefer Yang:).
Don’t take things like a harsh flame man.
Ken and chun are stupid good yah but I just think Yuns genei jin does ridiculus damage used right considering the size of the bar and the quickness of how it can be recharged again - I mean it may be a bit better if it could be stopped like a VC but the fact it keeps going and you can still get huge damage out of it is just kinda lame.
I aint flaming just stating my opinion just like you have yours ;).