Or maybe you just havent played any GOOD roll players. Im pretty much sick of all this theory fighter but here it goes. All her shit is super safe, and hard for Karas to punish unless youre being an idiot. That combined with the fact that Karas has a hard time approaching on his own means this shit is not as lopsided as you think, even though this isnt Rolls best matchup. Its actually one I`ve consistently done well with though, in the arcades here.
For all the nay sayers of karas being in a leauge of his own please take a look at my post at the bottom of this thread and tell me you feel this is fair:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=5988807#post5988807
Oh ok. Yeah, that’s true. But PTX does have knockdown moves to limit the opponent’s options when it comes to landing the super. And just like all of his attacks (except the low jab) you should never ever just use it randomly.
its just a list of infinites.
18 characters in the cast can only get the infinite of doom from their corner only, not at all, or for two of them, under different circumstances, and ken, polymar, and chun li are 3 that cannot get beasted by karas’s infinite, from your list, which can be a problem, considering they are good characters, and can really hurt karas. especially chun and polymar. if i gotta bet 1 vs 1, chun vs karas. karas loses. polymar vs karas, eh, but one fuck up into polymars air super setup is gonna be painful. not to mention polymar with baroque. blah blah, i just dont see the karas hype.
an infinite does not make you in a league of your own, even in this game, nor does having a strong, but not unbeatable offense. karas is still the weakest character in the game, and he is like a reverse magneto in this game. magneto in mvc2 can kill you off of one slip up, and karas can die in this game off of one slip up. i have a simple 4 hit combo into a level 3 with batsu, that takes LITERALLY 70 PERCENT OF KARAS’S LIFE. you know how easy it is to slip once and eat that combo from batsu. now yes there are variables in the game that can change that, but for the most part he is dead.
im not saying karas sucks, but im not on a karas bandwagon. i think people are just caught up in the hype. top, yes, planet moon class of his own, no. time will tell
Agreed.
For the most part, it depends on the opponents you face and a lot of people like to make retarded claims based on them beating their friends. IE: “Roll sucks against Karas because I beat my friend’s Roll easily with Karas” That’s really dumb and unfounded because that Roll may not even be good. Sometimes what you think is “good” may not be that good if you compare them to another Roll.
Like someone said before; the game needs some more time to determine the tier list to at least sub par accuracy. A lot more tournaments have to be done to see the potential of some of these sleeper characters.
I can’t disagree with Karas (so far) being the best character in the game though. I use him myself and I must say I feel really really bad most of the time getting away with half the shit I do. It’s pretty stupid but hey, one Casshern Baroque combo brought me down to about 20% of my health so then I thought…“oh there’s his weakness”. Once people find out how to punish Karas’ spam he won’t be as scary. It’s not as simple as pushblock though, there’s a lot of variation to his combo strings so please nobody respond with that foolishness…
I dont even think the Japanese are making tier lists yet. But I could easily be wrong.
It’d be alot easier for Tier Speculation once we’ve generally figured out the cast of characters and what they can REALLY do.
Best way for us to do that is tournaments. And recording said tournaments so we can watch, analyze, critique, and document.
You basically owned this thread GHN.
Give it a while people…
Only thing Samurai was right about was Karas though. Nobody can deny that 
Why don’t y’all just speculate on what you are first hand comfortable with or the characters you won the most with?
If anyone’s going to be in a league of their own down the line, imo it’s going to be Morrigan. Yeah, right now, her damage is minimal, but those instant overheads are going to cause so much trouble. IOH-A, super fast, super low to the ground, can tick into command grab from Advanced Guard. IOH-B, really fast, pretty low, leads into full screen infinite. IOH-C, super fast, hard to spot, works well as fake out. Once people get used to her, IOH into mix-up, into combo, into knockdown should become a pretty useful tactic for her and with Advanced Guard being almost useless insome cases (IOH-A), you don’t have many options other than to block, or Alpha Counter.
That alone I think is pretty game breaking, concidering how long it takes other characters to land an overhead, by either jumping or IAD’ing. It’s almost a free mix-up, which we all know is potentially more dangerous than the standard, high damage. Counter characters should have some ways of getting around this BS (Karas, Souki etc), but for the majority of the cast, it’s going to be a pain once you’re in the loop.
One element alone isn’t usually what makes a character amazing but there is potential with Morrigan.
She still has terrible specials though…
Yeah I really do think it’s too early. For the most part, everyone’s working off knowledge of the matchups they have with the people around them, really insular stuff. Pretty much nobody’s got a really broad range of different people of different skill levels across all characters at this point so saying “I owned my matchups with character X” still isn’t worth much.
It’s true. Perhaps xSamuraix played against some really crappy, predictable Roll players to surmise that he has gotten around all of the ‘gimmicks’. Any fighting game character can only do so much with the moves they have, after all, but it’s up to the player themselves to mix it up and truly make the most of what they’ve got.
Besides which, I’ve pretty much stopped taking him seriously when he said that ‘Healing’ was a waste of time. Saved me quite a few times against some players who meant business (I actually used it to brace against a Shinkuu Hadouken (my life was low enough so that a light breeze could kill me) and survived!) Anybody who underestimates that move fails. Sorry.
He is right about Karas, though. Karas is a pain in the ass, and Capcom knows it. Why else would they make his life bar drain faster than everyone else’s?
But, yeah. Like I was saying before, I like j1n’s list a lot more.
From what people are saying about Morrigan, it does sound like she could be trouble, and, yes, maybe I haven’t been giving her credit enough. Still, with her specials being rather crappy, how long do you think before even that strategy is shot down?
You get knocked down, she’s in your face, what are you going to do? That’s the question you have to face. No other character can do an overhead that’s faster and potentially lower than most 2A’s in the game. Speed means it’s hard to predict/react, low down means Advanced Guard suffers, those are major issues. Who cares about specials? Theoretically, being on the ground is NOT a good place to be when she’s in your face, in a sense only characters with counter moves or invincibility have decent options at that point.
Of course, this is all speculation and way beyond anyone’s execution right now, but it doesn’t mean it will stay that way…
But cant you roll away after a knockdown in this game and call your assist while you do it?
If I remember correctly, you can call an assist on wakeup. And with someone on offense, they probably wont be able to guard an assist while pushing forward unless they predict and stop to take care of the assist. Either way, if you time it right, your assist will help you get away.
If Karas is in a league of his own…what puts him so far above Chun? As stupid as it sounds, it’s like people are underrating Chun. It’s absolutely bias on my part because I play her, and no one I play with really messes with Karas…but I haven’t really seen anything in videos that makes her “a league” below Karas.
Alright maybe I should clear some stuff up since people seem mad at me for hating on Roll, lol. As with everyone else, my tier list is a collection or me playing people from gatherings, watching videos, and me messing with characters in training mode. I’ve went through most characters threads and tried out most of the information people have posted, so using the information that I have available to me at the time is how I placed the characters.
But yeah on Roll, I’ll stop knocking her since most everyone else seems to really think she’s good. I guess we’ll have to see how she does in tournaments. I just personally don’t think she’s all that good.
As for Karas in a league of his own, that’s at this point in time. When it all boils down to it, Chun may end up being better, or atleast right there next to him. Her infinite works on more characters and she has better stamina, but her pokes aren’t as good as karas’s. She can IAD j.B much better than karas can though, which I think is probably Karas’s only weak point, not having an amazing jump in. He’s got some OK jump ins, but the hit boxes on them are pretty weak. We’ll have to see how that affects the gameplay in the end though.
As for morrigan being the best one day, I just can’t see it since her damage isn’t all that great. Her mix ups while on the ground are pretty good, but what can she do vs a character like tekkaman that just stays in the air? Also I believe like a lot of characters, her 2A isn’t actually low, so it’ll be a lot more difficult to hit confirm in a mix up situation from 2B unless you have 3 meters or a baroque.
2B into either 2C or 3C is actually verifiable. just chain really late
if morrigan does trijump B and hits you out of the air, she can just launch with 3C, or jump B, double jump B B -> fireball -> super
Chun is awesome and I believe she can deal with Karas at a far greater level than most characters can but if you look at some of the Grego vs. Floe matches you will see who controls the match most of the time.
Saki is going to be tippy top tier. Im telling you right now, Saki with meter is the scariest character in the game.