Do you guys actually pay attention to the netsu stuff?
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=122004
ATP has outdated Inatekken data of the older version of the arcade release try this in google
Inatekken Steve page
or
Thanks for the links man.
I’ve already figured most of his frame data out by spending roughly a whole day in training mode. It was tiresome but at least I’ve got the data XD
I’ll be sure to check the links out, there might be some stuff that I’ve overlooked.
I disagree with this.
I win matches with literally 2 moves sometimes. And it doesn’t matter if my opponent knows that I only use those 2 moves, he still has to guess if I’m going to hit mid, low or throw. Actually, the more repetitive I play the more successful I am usually, because repetition conditions people better.
You don’t need to use 100 moves to be unpredictable.
I’m new to Tekken so I don’t know if it’s the same for all characters, but my mains have 120+ move list and 80% of those moves are either unsafe on block, telegraphed or down right just bad. At the end of the day I don’t really need to know all the NC and NCc moves and all the moves that crumple or launch on CH. Only the ones that give me the best reward for lowest risk. For example Christie has a ton of high crush and low crush moves but I don’t need to know/use them all. I just need to know which high/low crush leads to max damage and is safest on block. I just need 1 or 2 NCc to fish at midrange, 2 moves for whiff punishing and 1 or 2 good mixups. So you can be fine with just 5-10 moves. The rest is all movement/spacing/footsies.
But yeah, I guess it can’t hurt to at least know about other moves to learn the mirror matchup. And learning/playing other characters is the best way to learn matchups.
If you’re beating people using two moves, either you’re playing online, fighting some bad players, or you’re Guile (or all three). I didn’t say you can’t be unpredictable with two moves, my point was your unpredictable pattern becomes predictable real quick if you’re not utilizing multiple options. It’s like True or False compared to multiple choice; you may not know all the answers, but with T or F got a 50/50 chance.
I’m not saying learn all the moves, I’m saying be aware of all your tools and your opponent’s tools. Throughout many FGCs I heard players complain about losing to “XX” move and how no good “YY” player should use that move cause it’s unsafe/telegraph/useless etc. Any move can be telegraphed if you know when and where the opponent is gonna use it through experience with players and the matchup. Daigo does that stuff all the time. A move’s valve depends on the matchup also. What might be useless against one character may be useful against another (or vice versa), and what may be considered the best move can also be free against certain characters. I can toss out a useless 10-hit string but if you’ve never dealt with it and don’t know how to block or counter it (cause no one uses them) then I 'll get my damage, which could lead to victory. I can also use my best low-risk high-reward option and have that relatively low-risk cost me the match via parry or some other counter move.
I’m a terrible FG player. I pile my win streaks from players with limited offense and predictable maneuvers. Those are the easiest players to figure out. The players I lose to are the ones I can’t tell what they’re trying to do.
Aside f+1+2, his major change is ff+2 got a range nerf, so many of his T6 juggles won’t work (thankfully, FLK 1 f+1 ff+2 B! is too unfair). But he got a nice buff in b+2. b+1 whiff recovery is worse, and he got the best TA fillers in the game… Aside from that, he’s still the pressure CH hunter you are used to in T6…
@ DEATH
Yeah I’ve read all those things on Zaibatsu already.
It’s true that his b+2 got buffed but it’s a lot harder to do a combo afterwards cause his ff+2 got nerfed.
But I do wonder tho, you’re saying that he got the best TA fillers in the game. I understand that he has a great wall carry but to me he kinda sucks as a TA filler (damage wise).
Maybe it’s cause I’m used to high damaging fillers with Law and Paul, but I can’t find anything decent with Steve.
It’s the first time I’m playing with Steve and I’ve tagged him up with Paul (My main) but everytime I do a launcher with Paul I just do the combo by himself without doing a tag assault cause the only thing tag assault does is giving the opponent more red life and rage, for almost no extra damage.
Right because there’s only one way to play a single character >_>.
For steve TA:
df+1, 2~1~B FLK 1~B ALB 2… That’s the regular one, Pretty tough to do when you’re new to steve. Actually, you’re not even limited with that. As long as your opponent doesn’t touch the ground, you do moves that transition to stances like his FLK and PAB. That alone makes him too good for TA! that you won’t even need to do a finishing move for your point and instead focus on oki…
And yeah, if it’s your preference, you can refrain using TA if you like. sometimes though it’s neccessary, especially when your opponent’s gonna get rage anyway because of health, or if you’re gonna finish your opponent…
To change into Devil Kazuya at will u,b + 2P (2 punch buttons)
Jin is u,b + TAG…you have to team Jin and Devil Jin together. Like Kazuya and Devil in the previous Tag game.
All I’m reading here is: “Use your entire movelist because there’s bound to be a couple of moves in there your opponent has never seen and doesn’t know how to block.”. That sounds like a pretty low level strategy to me. I doubt you could just throw out random unsafe moves vs a high level player and hope that he doesn’t know how to deal with it. That’s relying on an opponent’s lack of knowledge to win. Though I suppose that sort of tactic works better in Tekken because it’s pretty much impossible to know everything about every character…
A mixup is a mixup. It doesn’t matter if you’ve seen it a million times and it doesn’t matter if you’re convinced you know what your opponent has in mind, you will still get perfected from time to time (see Akuma/Seth’s vortex in AE or Scorpion/Kabal’s vortex in MK9). Even if it’s the same thing over and over, you guess wrong a couple of times in a row and you’re dead. And imo it’s not just a matter of luck. Conditioning the opponent is an art. And conditioning becomes harder and probably impossible to achieve if you just do different moves all the time.
I dunno, maybe I’ll change my mind in a few weeks. But for now I’m content with my top 15-20 moves and don’t feel the need to use anything else.
Jin is anything but easy in this game.
Seeing as though this is the complaint thread, hopefully I’ve come to the right place.
Simply put playing online in Australia is a painful experience. I’ve seen many people write here and on other forums that its great, well for me personally it sucks which is a shame because I LOVE Tekken… always have. And before anyone says that it’s my fault, my speed connection speed (download) on the PS3 is 11.5 Mbps.
Seriously I get random lag spikes any the commands I do on the control eventually come out like 1.5 seconds later. ARGH!
Theres a patch coming on the 9th of this month, hopefully that will fix your problems.
I also have a lot of online issues, so I’m sure you’re not the only one.
I totally forgot you could do moves and cancel them to other moves to stay in as a filler. So yeah it makes totally sense that he’s considered one of the best TA fillers.
He does little damage per hit tho, so the more hits he does the harder it gets to keep the combo going, but Paul only needs to finish with his Death fist nyways, so I’m sure I can work it out.
Thanks for the info man, it totally slipped my mind XD
I totally agree with the both of you, but I do think that you don’t truly get what he was trying to say.
The difference between a good and a bad player is not only skills, but also knowledge. So beating your opponent with a move he doesn’t know how to block is not a low level strategy at all.
You see it happen all the time in Street fighter, if you have a setup or an unblockable attack that your opponent doesn’t know about then you have the upperhand. Look at what happened to daigo when he played xian’s Gen, even if your moves are punishable on block, if he doesn’t know how to deal with them you’re in that particular matchup better than him.
Another case is with Jann Lee from DOA. I’ve been told that he’s a really good character but hard to win with cause everyone knows his attack strings and knows how to counter them.
But yes, there are only a couple of moves that are really usefull, and in the beginning you only really need to know a couple of moves. But don’t let that restrict you from learning and using all the moves that you have in your disposal.
You can still do mixups with only a small amount of moves, but just like MD said, you’ll get predictable pretty quick. Your opponent is bound to make a good read and blow you up.
When I’m playing a scrub or someone who is pretty new to Tekken, I only use 10 moves or so. But if I’m playing someone realy good and knowladgeable, then I simply HAVE to use all my other moves to be more succesful. Unlike Street Fighter, in Tekken there is an answer for every move you throw out, almost nothing is guaranteed.
Even 10 hit combos become useful, most people know how to block them so I only use the first 3 strings or so and use another set of moves to mix my opponent up and break his guard.
To me a true character master is not someone who is able to finish off people with only a couple set moves, but to me a true character master is someone who knows when and how to use all the moves he has at his disposal.
Good points.
But I still don’t buy that using fewer moves makes you predictable or easier to read. Players who think like that are usually the easiest to beat for me because they are more susceptible of falling for my mixups and baits. Bad players are predictable, not characters or moves.
I remember James Chen saying once that you should always try to win with the least amount of tricks possible. And keep your secret setups for later in tournament when players have studied your patterns and all. I agree with that minimalistic approach. If my basic mixup works and gets me wins, I see no reason to stop doing it or try something else. I will only try something else if my first mixup doesn’t get me anywhere. Then I will change my gameplan and start using other tools. So in that sense, I agree that you should at least know your moves so that you can always have more options and a backup plan. But I disagree that you need to use your entire move list to succeed. A lot of top players use minimal mixups and setups until they reach top 8 where they start pulling some secret setups from their bag of tricks (well, thinking about SF and MK at least, maybe it’s different for Tekken tournaments I haven’t watched a lot of those).
Maybe I’m just playing bad players, but I have yet to fight someone that always countered my main mixups and forced me to use something else. But don’t worry about me, I know all my moves I just don’t see any reason to use more than 15 moves right now.
I agree with everything you’ve just said.
It are players who are predictable and not moves.
I’m not saying that using fewer moves makes u easier to read per se, I’m just saying that using a wider variety of moves makes it harder for your opponent to guess what you’re going to do.
Because like I said before unlike Street Fighter nothing is guaranteed. You can use fast high/mid/low attacks which are fast and really safe on block and these can be enough to keep them guessing and eventually winning.
But these moves also have holes in them, let’s say 2 of them tracks to the RIGHT and 1 of them tracks to the LEFT.
Your opponent is eventually gonna sidestep to the LEFT since that gives him more a more succes ratio to counter you. Now let’s say you use another high attack that tracks to the LEFT. You still have 2 moves that tracks to the RIGHT but also 2 moves that tracks to the LEFT, so now the chances of him countering you are minimized. And this is just a simple example of using sidestep to exploit holes in moves, you can also backdash and duck etc.
I also remember James Chen saying that, Why ? Because knowledge is power, if you’re using everything you’ve got straight out of the bait, you’re giving your opponent valuable information. Doesn’t matter if it’s SF4, MK, MVC, DOA or Tekken, it’s all the same. If you’re using everything in the first round you’re not necessarily showing what your character is capable off but rather showing what you are capable of.
If you are able to win with only one set of moves or one particular setup then keep doing it.
I agree that there’s no reason to change your playstyle. I’m just like you I think.
My opponent has to force me in using a wider variety of moves, he has to force me in adapting to his level.
That’s how I play the game at least. I’m not gonna style on you and show you every move from my command list. If I’m able to beat the crap out of you with only 3 moves then I’m gon’ keep doing it. It’s as simple as that 
But you’re a smart guy besides you are THE vulcan hades after all, a fellow low tier character loyalist 
lol, I just play the characters I like and think are good. They just happen to be considered low tier by most.
is there any good guide for TTT2 Steve? cant seem to find any relevant information.
This should help you out I think.
There is also a Steve tutorial from level up your game, it’s from T6 but apparently he didn’t change that much.
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