^^ GG also operates by taking hyper homogenized mechanics and concealing them very effectively with wildly different gimmicks.
good input user 124764
Way to add nothing to the thread :tup:
Guilty Gear Slash made me give up on GGXX. It was extremely boring…but it was fair character wise. nobody sucked in that version if I recall. Didnt bother with AC I’m sure its a fun ass game though. When GGXXX comes out i’ll play it. LOL @ Ky being the best character.
They’re a big part of it, though. If you don’t find a character you enjoy playing or the character you enjoy playing simply can’t match up against other characters because they’re lacking in the tools they have access to, then you’re probably not going to enjoy the game regardless of how much you enjoy the competition or the game’s mechanics.
I suppose we can break serious tournament players into two different categories:
- The player who plays to win no matter what. It doesn’t matter what character he plays, since he enjoys competition in and of itself more than any specific character’s play style.
- The player who plays to win with a specific character. He has a particular character or characters he enjoys playing and isn’t willing to change to a better character. He derives his enjoyment from playing characters with a particular play style, and his love of competition is not enough to overcome the lack of enjoyment he would have playing a different type of character.
And what exactly are arguing about? I’m not sure if I ever actually knew.
There’s at least 4 people here that will pick up a game and say “Who’s the best and what do I do with them.”
They don’t give a fuck about balance or even what the character is, that shit is for if they get bored from winning too much.
Ordfer Sol was pretty shitty in Slash.
If that is true, then he is a fkn moron who is afraid of change or incapable of making improvement. Its the same thing, and Ryu will always be the best character because all he has to do is throw fireballs. It doesn’t really matter, seeing how the franchise started in the 80’s and god knows how many remakes there are, thirty years later and the game is still in the need of these tweaks which no one seems to know, must be very complicated stuff, should we use 1 frame or 100??? Also Dan got better, just the rest not much effort was put into thought, its more like just wing it and see what happens, Ryu wasn’t top tier in 3rd strike.
Yeah I’m really sick of the 1-frame link bullshit. Main reason why everyone other than high-level players prefers to play defensive now
You people are totally misunderstanding what I said. Well, actually, I don’t think polar- err…TMG is misunderstanding me. I think he just trollin’.
I’m not talking about the “characters” in terms of their personality or design or looks.
I’M TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY PLAY.
A fighting game’s rules are not defined exclusively by the engine, but also BY THE CHARACTERS’ INDIVIDUAL MOVELISTS AND PROPERTIES WITHIN THAT ENGINE.
That’s all I’m trying to say.
You don’t play SF4. You play Hakan IN SF4.
You don’t play Blazblue. You play Tager IN Blazblue.
You don’t play Tekken. You play Anna IN Tekken.
Ultimately, the rules of the game and, therefore, the ENJOYMENT are not derived from the game engine, but from how the characters take advantage of the game engine.
Certain characters are simply more fun to use than others.
Or, if “fun” is meaningless to you…certain character play styles are more compatible to a player than other play styles.
There are tiers [media=youtube]CWILhrSzw5o&feature=player_embedded"[/media]
But seriously, tier compression is a good thing and I’m mostly happy with it in SSF4. But the smallest of tweaks could always make it better and I would love to see even more tier compression in any updates they do.
Also…Rolento and Birdie.
ssf4 is all about who can give their capcom created gimmick off first. its a game of attrition where the victor is the person who can implement their gimmick better wins.
the characters with the better gimmicks are top tier, the solid characters without solid, repeatable gimmicks are mid-tier, and the characters with hard to implement gimmicks are low tier. the only reason people can think the game is balanced is because the gimmicks are usually really strong and if you get them you can pull of wins despite how good the opponent is… its the game where gimmicks and stuff like vortexes can make what should be a 8-2 or a 9-1 into a 4-6 matchup. look at how the new characters in the game are designed…2 or 3 gimmicks that are meant to be repeated ad nauseum, with a subpar reversal and horrible offensive ability outside of said gimmicks.
the best part is how bad the game punishes you for straying from your gimmick. because characters like ibuki outside of vortex is pretty inadequate in everything but run away. and i like these matches where someone fucks up on their vortex or their rushdown and then has to wait 30-45 seconds to implement any meaningful offense.
the game wasn’t designed for freewill or creativity. its the game of how capcom controls how you play by taking away meaningful options and punishing you for straying from the options they demand that you take. you can say that all sf’s have been like that, but in previous games, its much easier to tell who’s playing because they playstyles are much less homogeneous than they are in sf4.
i’m assuming i’m gonna catch alot of shit for this post.
Simple as that. This is how I think games need to be approach. Not with character design but with system mechanics.
actually uh you just pick a way to play and if you want to pick a way to play that is sub-optimal then that is your choice. like imagine if i was going to start playing quake exclusively w/ machine gun and saying that i am a machine gun player and complain that my way of playing isnt viable, how stupid would that be?
the only difference here is that the weapons in a fighter are characterized/look like humans or w/e and the weapons in an fps are not so obv people are dumb and get attached to their animes and want them to win
No, no, no that’s alright. That’s very well written, even Ryan Hart seemed to echo the same thing when asked what his problem with SF4 was/is.
ssf4 is pretty much a manifestation of why you should never just give dumb chars dumb buffs to try to balance a game
I love this post.
oh fuckkkk
why cant my animes win
Referring to S-Kill’s comments, I’m not entirely sure that quoting Top 8 at Evo as character diversity in SSF4 is accurate. Arguably those that lost to less popular characters were probably prone to being out-gimmicked, not because the game balance was any better than the previous iteration.
[media=youtube]Idh1yr1SJNA#t=1m26s"[/media]Also this sound like basis of 95% of all fighters
I don’t hold civil and articulate discussions with idiots, I call them idiots. I reserve civility for people who make thoughtful points backed with reason and evidence, not for imbeciles.
Which is precisely what you did, and why you’ll never get a shred of civility from me. :tdown: Loser.
Dr. B’s entrance music is the most thoughtfully remixed hip-hop version of the Undertaker’s classic entrance music you’ll ever hear.