Wow that is very interesting. I never actually thought of it like that. It would make sense to look at the top tier characters to see how the playstyle of the game would be like since it would mean their strengths would be played at their strongest.
white has an advantage because he/she moves first
Heres food for thought.** Stop sucking balance’s dick**. I mean seriously what did balance ever do for you…think about it seriously. Balance is rare to achieve properly with variety while still having fun factor.
SF isn’t just a fighting game.
SF is a fighting game that is tied to it’s storyline moreso than any other fighting game franchise i can think of.
Ryu is the “best” canonically, so an SF game where Dan somehow becomes top tier and Ryu is the worst is not good.
If SF’s tier list followed the storyline, itd probably be something like
- Akuma
- Gouken
- Ryu
- Bison
- Ken
and so on and so forth.
sometimes that’s a disadvantage.
Yo, everyone should start playing AH3 and Chaos Breaker to get on the motherfucking hype train.
Choo choo motherfuckers.
This moment, right now, I love you more than Dr. B. Quoting for truth and emphasis.
even chess is not balanced, the game ever so slightly favors white by like .5%, and tournament results prove this.
and in chess, all the pieces are identical, but white just gets to move first.
there is no such thing as a balanced game, stop crying.
I LOLed hard.
UMK3.
Battleship…
hahah…
Lol what?
SF has the loosest story of any of the major fighting games. Namco fighting games crush it hands down as far as story goes (NAMCO KILLED CHARACTERS OFF). The KOF series, Guilty Gear, Arcana, hell almost anything that isn’t a vs game is more tied to its story than SF.
Ryu isn’t the best in SF, Hes been shown to losing to or to be on a level below: Bison, Akuma, Gouken, Gen, Dhalsim and Guile. depending on which version of the SF story you’re looking at
HF, A2 (once you get to a level where core SF mechanics are better than custom/counter madness), SF4. Not coincidentally those 3 games and ST likely are the top 4 (or top 4 of 5) favorite SF games for anyone who likes SF.
There are exceptions on the character strength front, but it’s generally true, especially in the Guile/Dhalsim sense. For fun, look at all games that both of the characters appear in.
WW – Both very good, #1 and #2 in the game.
CE – Both still pretty solid but have been passed by Ryu
HF – Both relatively weak, this would be the weakest Dhalsim until A2
Super – Both mid to upper-mid
ST – Dhalsim very good, Guile very bad (ST breaks virtually every rule of SF game design, which is why when someone once told me that ST was the first Marvel game and not a part of the actual SF experience, I agreed with him instantly)
A2 (Charlie) – Both very bad characters
A3 – Dhalsim very good, Charlie above average, Guile (when added) terrible
CvS1 – Both very good
CvS2 (pre RC) – Both very bad
CvS2 (with RC) – Guile above average, Dhalsim still sucks
SF4 – Both very bad
SSF4 – Both very good. Dangerously so.
Most of the time they move up and down the tier lists together, for engine reasons moreso than individual strength reasons. Both are very static character types which helps the comparison.
Anyways, this will probably help you understand the point I’m getting at. A little thought exercise for you.
- Why are Guile and Dhalsim (dramatically) better in Super SF4 as compared to vanilla. Their buffs were very small. Consider global changes more than character-specific changes.
- Once you have the proper answer to #1, think about this one. Cammy was a mid to low tier character in vanilla SF4. In Super SF4, she is likely a top 5 character. This happened despite her best move getting a Sagat level damage nerf and her combo into ultra being weakened. Again, consider global changes more than character specific changes.
- Extra credit. Why are gamers more dissatisfied with Super SF4 than vanilla SF4, despite almost all of the things that were disliked about SF4 being changed?
Here’s a thought to get your mind moving in the right direction. SF4 (vanilla) was almost exclusively about the ultra meter. If you look at a tier list, other than Akuma and Zangief (because they have grab ultras) the list reads almost exactly like this.
Top: Characters who combo into their ultra every round.
Upper-mid: Characters who can combo into their ultra, but don’t get the opportunity to do it every round.
Mid: Characters who combo into their ultra occasionally (mostly because it’s impractical). Characters whose ultra serves a specific purpose. Don’t jump, don’t throw a fireball, don’t whiff XXX.
Low: Characters who don’t land their ultras.
It was safe to say that the ultra meter in SF4 essentially told you how far your character was going to go. SF4 was essentially about the ultra.
The $64,000 question to get your brain moving in the right direction.
What is SSF4 all about?
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
I think you blew the conch shell with that last sentence. The many angled ones are on their way.
strong options selects and a good reversal on wake up. =ssf4
More interesting stuff but I’ll take a crack at it even though my fighting game experience isn’t the best.
The damage nerf all around from vanilla to super greatly helped people such as dhalsim and guile. Their style is often more patient than others creating mistakes in the others game. Once someone got in on dhalsim it became very deadly in vanilla since he could die in basically 2-3 confrontations. With the damage nerf they were able to survive more confrontations and thus have more chances to play their zoning game.
Cammy got buffed by this too in that she was a “pixie” type character. Her being able to survive more encounters enable her more chances to play her game. Of course right now I’m just considering the all around global damage nerf, nothing character specific.
Thats what I got off the top of my head when I just looked at your post, I haven’t really digested or thought it out.
And for what ssf4 about I can tell you what I think it is (mid tier at best player). It’s more about those controlling space than anything like landing one big damaging move like the ultra in vanilla. That’s why charge characters are near the top, someone like chun controls space very well and someone like bison can turtle and go on the offensive at will. Rufus and Cammy can enclose space well, which is also controlling space except you are moving in on them. By controlling space through a whole match you “outplay” your opponent, rather than just tiger uppercut fadc high kick into ultra.
Though I would like to hear more thoughts on what ssf4 means. Even though Fighting game discussion seems to hate ssf4 and every other fighting game in existence.
viscant:
for 1, it’s coz everyone’s smaller. they can get farther apart so full screen zoning means even more work.
the rewards for getting in are lower in SF4’s engine in general and with lower damage you can’t end them quickly for getting inside of their zoning game.
for some reason i have the feeling cammy’s spiral arrow is a more relevant tool with the bigger screen
edit: sixmachine called the damage thing while i was posting.
i have no answer to 3 though
Charlie Nash is still dead. Baek Doo San isn’t dead anymore.
I’m not sure what point you were trying to make here…
I’m surprised he said Fei was overrated. When he says that’s where they want him to be… that surprised me. Did he mean that they wanted him to be top tier? Maybe they were trying to give Fei his time in the spotlight since he’s sucked in virtually every game ever. I dunno.
being able to to walk backwards and still be a threat. Or having the vortex. = ssfiv
Honestly if capcom upped the speed like a notch or 2 it would prolly make the game was more fun and not chargefighter iv