What was the reasoning behind changing her command normal commands in Omega? Were they just messing with stuff?
How do you know it’s like TAP? Afaik, once you throw the kunai you have to hold down the punch.
Ibuki her normal to cancel from was st.mk during a combo, her overhead was f.mk. So when you would do st.mk xx kazegiri(dp) you had you leave the st.mk in neutral before inputting the kazegiri, otherwise you would get her f.mk.
cr.mk was an important button in neutral and as a whiff punishment tool, so when walking forward to harass an oponent with cr.mk or using it as a whiff punishment tool you had to input this:
walk forward, db+mk to avoid getting her slide. So they changed it to df.lk i believe.
Anyway she had a ton of overlapping inputs if you weren’t precise with her, during combos and neutral.
Yeah cr mk was a good button in SF4.What made this non cancelable/sjcable normal good,was the fact that aside from its decent startup and range,you could combo into her stmk on counterhit.This means,that if you get a counterhit off of her crmk,you can go for a stmkxxnecbreaker into vortex and unblockables or stmk sjcU2.
But on the other hand you had f+lk.That normal was great.Much faster than crmk,cancelable and sjcable with similar active frames,frame advantage,but slightly worse range.What was gdlk about this normal was that if you got a counterhit you could combo into neckbreaker or mk tsumuji (into unblockable etc).If you were fishing for counterhits at midrange it was much better than crmk,because the latter at its max range,wasn’t able to link into stmk (out of range).
Hopefully these normals will remain good in this game and not some vtrigger cancels.The new non cancelable stmk is going to feel super weird in the beginning though…
Heya, so I’ve been thinking quite a bit and discussing ibuki’s potential for a 2-bomb combo. But so far with another fellow player, I could only figure it out as a corner only combo. I did my homework Damascus. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Consider the following scenario’s:
-Ibuki’s v-trigger bomb is by default, thrown at a specific range. What do you think happens when it lands in the corner, or part of it? It would probably land closer to ibuki.
-Now, what ways can ibuki combo into bomb? Lets write down a few things: Throws, kazegiri, release all kunai, and raida. (Please add more if you know any.)
So, this is the rough sketch I drew in my head:
lp, mp, hp, kunai, cancel v-trigger, mp, heavy kazegiri, (bomb explodes causing juggle), release all kunai at the highest point of the bomb explosion, cancel into v-trigger again, then raida, CA, or something?
What do you guys think?
I don’t think the 2nd bomb would come out fast enough. Feel free to try it though! Will work on no recovery for sure.
If she excels like no one at close range (and it se
Same here, I just don’t want to play SF5 until she’s there. I’m thinking of making her my main character for tournaments, I’ll get involved a lot in playing/mastering Ibuki; so I can’t find the motivation to play until that.
I’m even playing USF4 Ibuki a lot to wait SF5 one. =P
(sorry for my english skill)
I’m so thirsty right now lol. Had stopped playing the game after Cammy was a huge disappointment and reinstalled as soon as I watched the trailer but haven’t played at all. I can’t believe we’re still only 7 days into june 
I disagree with him. All he talked about is her losing moves and somehow, it’s a nerf. IT’S A DIFFERENT GAME, they are just changing the character. It has nothing to do with “X move was too op/annoying” or whatever and more about what purpose can they serve.
Dude hasn’t even used her and he was making assumptions off of WSO matches.
I don’t even care that she lost her moves.
- Tsujigoe we all can agree was useless. 3s and 4.
- Hien isn’t used much in either game so that can go away too. It was more of a surprise tool to super chip or whatever anyways.
- Neckbreaker was useless in 3s. In 4 it was good cuz it caused a hard knockdown but those are gone. Just use her slide to go under the few fireballs in the game or V-skill, and use Raida/Kazegiri as your ender.
- Tsumuji being gone is whatever too. Using specials at the end of your block string usually ends your turn anyway, and Kunais seem to replace it. Only some chars are 0 or plus. As said above, use Raida/Kazegiri as your ender. Not to mention Karin and Nash essentially have spin kicks. Talk about redundancy,
It’s a new char, learn the new style.
Don’t really agree with that guy’s perspective, but I can understand his frustration. His woes are those of an SFIV Ibuki, certainly not one of my generation. I said early on in this thread that Ibuki possessed many moves of questionable worth, of those, Tsumuji, Neckbreaker and Tsujigoe were among them. All of which she lost. Not a huge shock to me, personally. Raida was among them as well, but that being such a staple move to her character, I felt she would never lose it.
Neckbreaker, which has been discussed in this thread already, is not a very good move. It’s never been a very good move. It’s only in SFIV’s broken knockdown philosophy that it found a use. Now, they could have balanced it in SFV, but they chose to just throw it away. Not the worst loss, as Ibuki has numerous ways to get around projectiles that isn’t neckbreaker, which has never been very good at it save for the EX in SFIV.
Tsujigoe, I mean, let’s be honest here, it has never had a use. It’s not even a gimmick, it’s just a useless move. It’s one tiny scrap of usefulness is that it is instantaneously airborne which has very few uses. I don’t mean any offense to those who liked this move, but if you found success with this move, it was against really bad players. It was nothing more than a calling sign to shotos to DP you.
Tsumuji, while always sort of her safe on block ender, was designed around the concept of a parry. That’s why each version allows you to go low or high at different times. It’s real usefulness in this design didn’t really come to until 3S when red parrying became a thing. I am surprised it’s gone, but since it has overlapping design with other character’s special moves, I can understand it a bit.
Overall, yes, she lost a lot when compared to other characters so far. Most definitely. Overall, we don’t know what sort of uses the moves that replaced them will really have, but I’m keeping my hopes high enough. Obviously I don’t want Ibuki to be TOO good because I hate mirror matches, but I would like her to be mid-tier or so. Heh heh. From what we’ve seen of her, I think she’s either going to be top 5 or upper mid, depending on if she has a lot of falloff once people adapt to her. Like, we really don’t know how unsafe her Kunai even is. We kept seeing people keep momentum while doing it, but for all we know (depending on distance) it’s -4 or something.
The second bomb doesn’t get the luxury of pausing time, so I’m not sure if you would have the time to do that, but it does sound like something to test. I do think you could get a double bomb combo pretty easy on someone who was stunned, as a really damaging finisher, but, we want a real double bomb combo.
I’m more interested in using her bombs to convert her 4MP into a really damaging anti-air. 4MP (1hit), bomb, Kazekiri/Raida, Explosion, and so on…
We also don’t really know the sort of combo state bombs put the opponents in. We’ve seen all the special moves connect in someway, as well as her j.HP/HK. However, this being SFV, I’m suspecting that’s the extent of the normals that are capable of hitting. It would be damn nice if it wasn’t, and you could get close enough to land her 4MP and continue a juggle combo in that way. There’s a lot to test, and I’m looking forward to it.
You can’t truly adapt to ibuki, its adapting to what the player throws at you. I kinda do disagree with alot of points the video made, especially since it is centered around her moves, it would not make sense design wise if she still retained some of them, like neckbreaker. Lets say if they did, but they can escape by rolling back, so thats probably why we get to see more diversity in her toolset. At least she still has raida, andt hat is a key design for ibuki.
For a true bomb combo set up, I think it may require meter use. But I was thinking of one that was meterless. I also forgot that the second bomb does not time freeze.
Half of Ibukis special moves were competitively useless in 3S. I was always more interested in her normals and targets than her specials. To me her specials were just a loose extension of her gameplay at best. This is the first game where I feel they’re making kunai a truly interesting cornerstone of her gameplay so ill take that over less spinny moves or combo filler.
Good foosies is what im looking for and looks like she’ll have it with that walk speed and faster 3s like bonshon kick (f+hk)
After watching the video it just seems like the guy just doesn’t have much competitive experience and just liked the special moves for the sake of them being special moves. The only thing I kinda agree with him on is tsumuji, but tsumuji in SFIV wasn’t always a true block string any way (I knew EX tsumuji you could just mash invincible move inbetween any hit). Depending on the frame data on block for her kunais they may be like her block string replacement, but either way SFV is not a real block string heavy game. Which is very similar to 3S. One of the best characters in SFV pretty much plays like a 3S character (Ken). Not real heavy on block strings due to negative frames on block, but his one hit confirms open up a lot of damage.
He then goes on about how she didn’t do well at WSO. WSO is the same people we got bored of watching during the beta because they just weren’t doing basic stuff right and forgetting to activate V Trigger and such. Hell, it’s not even a TOURNAMENT. It’s like watching some random guys shit around for casuals and going “Ibuki’s not great”. That’s not a good way to judge a character. Maximilian made an entire video swearing up and down that Ken felt bad and not fun during the beta, only for them to change a couple things before he launched (he wasn’t turned upside down) and now he’s considered top 5 and regularly wins tournaments. Ken requires some work and things to learn to make him work, but he’s still a good bit more straightforward than Ibuki will be. He will just have to wait it out and hopefully be proven wrong.
He also brought up her V Trigger and how its a 3 bar for only 2 bombs when Cammy can also do 2 powered special moves for only 2 bars. Not a real fair comparison since those bombs are potentially stronger than Cammy’s powered specials. They will force people to stop blocking and do unsafe things because if they’re doing anything other than blocking when they go off they will probably get hit. They also have great combo potential and heavily add to her damage. She also seems to have pretty strong damage for a 900 health character (similar to Karin) so she’ll most likely be able to get by just throwing out crush counters and using V Reversals like her also.
He’s also obviously only played SFIV Ibuki which isn’t the perfect frame of reference since she was also altered from what Ibuki originally was in 3S. Which she was changed heavily from 2I/NG Ibuki. Which there’s also a SFxT Ibuki which played a bit more to footsies but just wasn’t that strong due to similar walk speed issues and just other characters doing what she did better. As long as Ibuki has good buttons, walk speed and has a relevant kunai game I think that plays to the basis of what Ibuki is. Funny enough despite describing only SFIV Ibuki during the video he has 3S Ibuki music playing.
I disagree a lot of you with a lot on being fine with her the way it is now, but at the same time I can live with it.
Tsumuji was a very vital move in ibuki’s moveset along with hien. Hien got you through a LOT of zoners or helped with rushdown. I can understand why they removed it since it could get her all over someone quick in V and it’s not like she has her air kunai super anymore to really monopolize on it, but that move was good even just to instill pressure on your opponent that they weren’t safe anywhere on the screen. It was also easily punishable with an SRK if the other player knew what they were doing so it wasn’t like it would be a game breaking move in V.
While the neckbreaker wasn’t her best move, It was similar to hien in where you could use it as mind games to make the other opponent not feel safe to throw out dumb stuff and it could be linked off simple stuff. Her flip helped a lot on wakeup if the other character thought they could just jab - combo you into something and you’d just flip on wakeup and throw a kunai to keep em blocking (not sure on iv, cuz iv is butt.) OR just kunai super from the flip.
These moves gave her MANY options and while I won’t say they gimped her now, I will say they redirected her whole playstyle. they gave her more options in setting up combos and focused more on how to link her normals instead of focus on playing with just her special moves. And that’s why I can live with it and am excited to see how I’ll play her now and what’ll be my goto setups, BUT I still think tsumuji and hien didn’t need to get taken out.
Also, since V is a transition to 3s, it’s kinda dumb she has THOSE MOVES in IV, but for some reason she stops using them in V for ??? knows what and then right back to them in 3s and none of those moves ever again.
Like Ryu’s setup to gradually transition from IV ryu antics to beginning to learn the things in 3s in V and then full blown 3s Ryu.
So it kinda confuses me how they wanted to rehaul her so much just because they felt she’d be so game breaking in a game like this. It’s not her fault she can finally be 2legitOP2quit cuz crapcom is butt at making good games.
but whatever, I’m really pissed she’s just coming out at the end of june.
Those special moves were pretty bad overall at high level except for tsumuji and neckbreakers case in IV (neckbreaker was really only good in IV because hard knockdown). Hien/tsuiji goe putting you into air flip/reset state as you got hit didn’t really make the moves themselves great. You’re basically just using the move’s ability to put you airbonre on frame one to escape a meaty combo. Which if the opponent read that they would just use their most powerful move that causes a juggle state and blow you up or just wait for you to do the special that’s pretty unsafe on block or easy to parry and punish.
Karin is maybe more a case where you could say “yes they removed those moves because OP”. Outside of tsumuji (which is basically being replaced with resource kunais), Ibuki is pretty much the same and only losing fluff specials that had no real use in high level neutral.
Tsumuji is a loss, I will definitely grant that. They could have repurposed the move to make it fit, but, I can also understand it’s removal. The ground kunai does serve a similar purpose, even though the ground kunai will have no varying heights or versions.
There’s no way to say this other than… that doesn’t work on any competent player. More than that, there are so many better and less risky strategies you could do in replacement to that, that it’s almost silly to even considering using Tsujigoe. In 3S, the whole reason the anti-air game is really complex (and stupid fun), is because people can parry in the air. The moment you take that away – whelp, people are going to blow you up real friggen bad, and not with SFV level of anti-air damage. Tsujigoe had the potential to be made useful, but in SFV, with it’s weird aerial hurtboxes, even if it was in, it would be just as bad if not worse.
Neckbreaker I’ve gone over a million times. She has so many tools that do the same job as neckbreaker, it is a wholly redundant move. Exception only being SFIV, and again, only because of that game’s knockdown shenanigans.
Of every move she lost, the only move I would be happy to see return would amazingly be Hien. Canceling into an overhead is a powerful ability, and just having it provides a constant fear. It was really good for setting up for chip kills in both games, and in SF3, I found near the end of my 3S career, that it was surprisingly effective in neutral against a decent amount of the cast. Not something I would do often, especially against players at my level or higher. However, Kuroda’s Ibuki kind of put me onto using it more, as he used it quite a bit. Since it returns you to the place you started from upon use, the higher kick versions were really quite safe against a lot of the cast. EX as well, and the EX I also had my own gimmicky uses for. Really, unless you were playing against someone who would red parry the second hit, the MK/HK versions were pretty safe. Just remember: never use Hien against Makoto, unless you’re going all-in on a chip kill setup.
On paper, this Ibuki seems pretty strong. However, it’s what’s written on that paper that will define everything. Her base moveset seems good, but if the framedata that goes with it is crap, then she may quickly fall out of competitive worth.
Also, and I know I’ve asked this before, but is Ibuki even actually popular as a character? Outside of NG and 2I, no one used Ibuki. So few people use her in the states I have to include myself amongst the more competent ones, which is horrendously cringy (I’m talking 3S, by the way). In Japan, there were only ever a few relevant Ibukis. In SFIV she was often considered in the top 5 on the tier list, yet no one really used her. I didn’t often see her ranking too highly in tournaments (granted, I did not follow the SFIV scene too much), or be used by more than maybe a few people. In all my online time in SFIV, I only ran into a handful of Ibukis, and most of them were terrible.
There’s also the fact that this thread was more or less dead until the reveal, and even post reveal – still pretty much just the same five people, heh heh. I just have never understood why she ranks highly on popularity lists, because no one plays her. That’s true for a lot of the 3S characters though – insanely popular, even if only a few dedicated players ever actually used them. In-fact of the 3S characters included so far, Urien is played by 50x the amount of Alex/Ibuki players combined.
I disagree. Most of her moves in fast paced play would make her OP in V. Even the people bringing her out said they took out some of her links because she’d be too cheap using them in a game like this or whatever the case.
I get they gave her something to make up for what they took out in V. I don’t have real qualms with it beyond hien and tsumuji, but all her shit had situational options that made people who played her make vastly different playstyles. (Can’t speak for IV, but 3s, yes I can.)
Playing 3s against other ibuki players always made me want to try something different moreso than any other mirror match or character match I was in simply because she had SO many options in things to do. I don’t think that’s changed at all either, but however I don’t think they should’ve taken out some just because “oh, this is better for her” or “this is less risky”.
There’s a lot of things that are more risky that come out out of nowhere in high level play that makes them win and we’ve all seen many do it with myriads of characters. They’ll always save it till when they need it too, so their opponent never expects it.
Either way, i’m just ready for her to be out. I hated how she played in IV, so I don’t really care about her there, but this new ibuki seems more in good pacing to 3s, which has me excited. and her command dash is amazing with how it’s used in combos or mixups now.
I don’t remember seeing it, but does her normal dash go through people in this game like in 3s or no?
No her regular dash is just a dash again (shorter than her IV dash, but quick).
Ok so that’s what I was confused about. Technically her regular kunai throw and multiple kunai throw are 2 different specials. The multiple kunai throw you don’t need a motion for, just hold punch for ground or kick for air.
Hmmm… so does her kunai animation have a hitbox when she’s out of kunais? Kind of silly if it doesn’t.