Touhou Suimusou - Immaterial and Missing Power

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
1

IaMP - Touhou Suimusou Immaterial and Missing Power - Tutorial Video Completed

With this game so close to release, I thought I’d get things started. Here’s what I posted about it already in another thread.

Note: there’s more than likely been some core engine changes to this which makes the above invalid.

The latest demo version is available for download on Tasofro’s page, which has some substantial gameplay tweaks, added practice and story modes. I’ll be updating the thread with random observations and maybe some footage here and there.

Where can I get the game?

It’s available from C67, Winter Comiket: a large gathering of doujinshi circles. It’s also available for preorder on several doujinshi sites like Akibado and Toranoana, as well as Himeya eventually.

I want to download it.

The demo version is on the site.

The full version, putz.

It’s twenty fucking dollars. Just buy the damn thing, and get a legit copy of MBR while you’re at it.

TIERS PLZ

gb2cfj

Any other doujin fighters like this?

Melty Blood ReACT, Eternal Fighter Zero, and Akatsuki Shisei Ichigou seem to be the only ones worth playing now. I’ll be posting about Akatsuki whenever I get my hands on it.

Act Cadenza isn’t a doujin game.

More on IaMP as I play around with it.

EDIT:

Here’s what’s up so far:

  • You can combo into the guard crush attacks (22+A/B). 22+A hits high, 22+B hits low. Some crush attacks will cause wallbounce if you’re close to the wall.

  • There is a complex guard crush system. You’re allowed to block any attacks high or low, but blocking “the wrong way” will drain your spirit gauge VERY quickly. Also, if you guard a guard crush attack the wrong way (i.e. blocking low for a 22+A) you will instantly be guard crushed.

  • By the way, this guard crush thing doesn’t reflect in training mode, but that’s because the AI is glitched.

  • EFZ-style juggle meter can be turned back on. It’s the third checkbox in Options. It doesn’t change any properties, but it makes it easier to see what’s allowed.

  • You can still block when you’re guard crushed, but you must block correctly or else you will be unable to. When guard crushed, you also have no spirit to work with as far as projectile-based moves and card supers go.

  • The config.exe that comes with the demo has problems running. If you want to use a pad and config.exe doesn’t run for you, you can replace it with the C66 config.exe. This will allow you to config the controls, but you will not have music in the game… until you crank music volume up in Options.

  • The demo crashes after you finish playing with Youmu.

  • Super cancels are now enabled (still have to declare a card first, though).

  • Dashing now gives you a dark blue silhouette. Aesthetic. You can still dash using D + a direction.

  • The title screen now is different and has many more options for a complete game. There’s a cute little bit in the manual about this. STORY MODE: (explanation) PRACTICE MODE: (explanation) NEKOMIMI MODE: Does not exist.

  • Card supers now require spirit, so you can’t infinitely spam them once you’ve declared. Some of them require more than others; Marisa’s hat beam drains all of her spirit instantly!

  • 22+C bombs are limited to 2 now. You can do them any time, even during guard stun and combos. Bombs are the large green tiles; they seem to come to you every 3 knockdowns. You also earn a small amount of spirit tiles upon a knockdown, a small amount from counterhits, and a certain number upon hitting your enemy when her bullets are on-screen.

IMPRESSIONS:

  • This game is… different. It doesn’t play like any fighting game ever, and I’ve played a fair number of them. Again, the focus is on projectiles, meter management, and mobility. Mobility is key to graze bullets (dash through them), avoid being guard crushed/spirit drained, and to launch your own offensive.

  • There’s six characters so far, and I really hope we get more. The presentation is superior to EFZ, but right now I think the game needs some serious sit-down time to determine if the engine is as good. They can’t even really be compared on the same level except for the juggle bar, as nothing else in the game works like anything in EFZ.

  • Reserving full judgement until I pick up the full version.

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Sounds pretty cool. I love Perfect Cherry Blossom, absolutely one of the best shootemups out there. goes to download the demo.

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There is no way in hell you will be able to get this game for twenty bucks (unless you personally know someone in Japan willing to do the dirty work, and even then shipping is a bitch). Trying to buy doujin games through Himeya is crazy expensive.

You may also want to directly link to the demo for the really lazy in the crowd, which is at ttp://qohmovie.net/cgi-bin/linkc.cgi?file=th075_t2

…also, if Act Cadenza is not a doujin game, how is Melty Blood (ReACT)? They were all commissioned and offically licensed by the IP holder; what’s the difference? (Drawing the line at an arcade vs. PC release?)

[edited for anonminity]

-Dippy

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Well, yes, I know people in Japan. :stuck_out_tongue: Yeah, shipping’s a bitch, but fact is, the game’s still not that much so people need to stop being torrenting leechers.

Ecole’s producing AC, they’re professional (so to speak) afaik. French Bread is still a circle, even though they do professional quality work. It’s a technicality, really.

5

Impressions from the new demo I’ll organize later. This is all testing with Youmu.

EFZ juggle bar seems to be gone.
Juggles seem to be limited like most other fighting games

  • They can only be done after a move with juggle potential.
  • They need to be done after a bomb.
  • They last as long as you have bombs or you have juggle moves.
    Lvl 2 sword -> b uppercut -> super cancel lvl 2 sword -> b uppercut will juggle till your special bar/super time/super bar/whatever runs out.
    Super cancels exist now. Not sure if this was true before or not.

Guarding is odd. Apparently they’ll let you block low attacks high and high attacks low but at great cost.
For every attack incorrectly blocked your special bar goes down. It seems the more poweful the attack the higher the bar damage. 214B breaks guard instantly while 2b doesn’t deal nearly as much.
When guard broken, you can only be hit by the direction you were broken in? If you low guard break them, they will be hit by low attacks but not high ones? 2b -> 214b combos in this state but 2b -> 6a will not?
You can do some limited infinites in this state. If you high guard break them, 6b x N becomes an infinite.

C attacks combo now. So if you did b,6b,c it would combo though the bullets may or may not combo depending on your setup.

You only seem to get the blue “points” if you knock them down or you hit them while they have projectiles on the screen. Making bombs appear seems random.

6

Updated stuff in my original post.

Dipstick: I was trying to avoid direct linking so their bandwidth isn’t raped. ^^;

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Normally I do not agree with the whole premise to “not linking of anything of worth,” expecially since the link is one step removed (it is not like I was hotlinking their images from the site).

However, I know some Japanese people can be really nasty about this – I have been DDoSed for hosting random material from a couple of Japanese sites before (that they did not want getting out to us gaijin)! So in the off chance someone at Tasogare is a complete ass, the link has been edited to require three more IQ points to use (oh noes), and it can not be directly linked back here.

-DIppy

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Melty Blood is a VERY special case. The original Melty Blood was done as a collaboration of Watanabe Seisakujo and Type-Moon when they were still doujinshi. ReACT came out after Type-Moon became commercial, but it is still considered doujinshi because it was also published under French Bread’s name (French Bread = Watanabe after a rename).

Act Cadenza is a commercial release, distributed by Ecole (a company) and licensed by Type-Moon (now commercial). The French Bread crew are still working on it (just like previous versions) but I don’t think they are being credited as French Bread.

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Reason why there is Akibado. Akibado charges the retail price plus shipping expense plus a commision, which is charged over the total price of the order instead of each item’s price. Shopping smart, Akibado is cheaper than Himeya, so you can buy import games at NCSX-type prices.

Alternatively, I noticed that Mangaoh has a “free order” section on their order page, and they ship to the US. I don’t know if it is limited to just what they have on stock, but that’s another option.

Still, the main point is that Immaterial is cheaper than most games you get on Gamestop or EB, so the “its to expensive” argument is worth nothing.

10

One game at a freaking time here guys.

@_________X

11

You know you want some Touhou hotness.

Hopefully the full version will have corrected the bugs with the demo. If nothing else Touhou’s presentation is superb. Hi-res backgrounds are gorgeous, and ZUN’s music is awesome as always.

I’m going to have to work on Alice Margatroid, I like the way her normals work and she’s got some Jedah-like shit with her doll going on.

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http://www.tasofro.net/touhou/chara.html

NEW CHARACTERS OMG

This brings the cast up to 8 so far: Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Alice, Patchouli, Youmu, Remilia, and Yuyuko. The last two may be boss only, but here’s hoping.

Here’s some crappy footage of me playing around.

Alice vs. Alice
Alice vs. Reimu

13

OH MY GOD. Story mode is the ultimate form of BS. They took the bosses straight out of the shooters and put them in a fighting engine. They do nothing but spam their supers OVER and OVER and OVER. That is some messed up stuff right there.

14

I managed to clear through the bosses on Lunatic without TOO much trouble (Youmu’s split form super is near impossible though).

I’ve got a few impressions from what I’ve played (which is quite a bit so far).

Graphics, sound, music are all top notch. It’s one of the best looking fighters out there, in my oppinion.

Gameplay is unique. I like it, but it really feels like it’s still missing a degree of control and accuracy in the characters and moves. It’s hard to explain, but the game just doesn’t feel like I’m in control nearly as well as when I play EFZ.

There seems to be a lot of flakeyness in invincibility too. It seems like the B version of some DPs are not invincible, while the A version is. I’m still trying to figure out what is and isn’t invincible though… everything feels fairly flakey at this point still.

As for balance, the characters don’t really feel balanced, even just with these four. It may be a matter of poor matchups, but I definately feel there will be a lot of changes in patches to come. I would put balance order something like this, from how much I have played: Reimu, Youmu, Marisa, Alice.
Reimu seems to have a LOT going for her… reversal-able teleports, a dashing 2B that goes through supers and sets up for combos, and very difficult to dodge layering on her projectile patterns.
Alice seems to be pretty lacking in her projectiles. While the bombs are very nice, it seems like one could avoid them easily by playing an air game. Her other projectiles cover a pretty small area, making them difficult to zone with (especially compaired to the massive arc of Reimu’s C). She does seem to be able to apply some monster good pressure in the corner with her special moves, but that doesn’t last too long most of the time.

Feel free to add oppinions on the matter, I may just be missing some key stratagies for the characters that would help out quite a bit.

I really like the long, elaborate combos of EFZ, and it’s always fun to pick out a new character to mess around with. I can’t tell if Touhou will be able to have that sort of character depth or not, but it doesn’t FEEL like there’s a large ammount to the comboing. I would like to know some interesting combos anyone figures out. So far most of mine just consists of:
663B > Bomb > Super
Or some variation of that.

Random other thoughts follow.

I’m not sure on the longevity of the game. It doesn’t feel too terribly in-depth right now, but it’s quite possible there’s a lot of depth to the game that’s hidden amongst the constant jousting of projectiles.

I’m kinda annoyed they took out a number of cancels from the first demo. I rather liked doing B > 6B > j.C with Reimu. A good ground combo into juggle. In the corner it could even link into the rainbow blast super, but not anymore.
I personally feel they should loosen up the cancels again. With the heavy damage scaling, I seriously doubt it would break the game… just make melee quite a bit more interesting.

That’s all I can think of. Sorry this was mostly just rambling. I really like the game and the characters, but I’m just still not QUITE loving the gameplay yet.
Here is an exciting match in pretty AVI format:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~thoda1/TH075-Demo.avi

This game is 1/3 projectile warfare, 1/3 close quarters battle, 1/3 fireworks display.

15

Just my personal opinion here:

I think anyone who plays Touhou for footsies or combos is, at this stage in the game, playing the game the wrong way.

It’s very much a hybrid game of a shmup and a fighter. The focus seems to be setting up your patterns and forcing a slip in their guard, while the other person is doing the same to you. Playing the game for combos is something of a fallacy. As evidenced by the lack of throws, the physical aspect is not what this game is about. The A and B attacks are simply there to provide a recourse for close combat and the various guard crush attacks, but they’re de-emphasized quite a bit.

Alice’s strength lies in the fact that she can start bullet-rushing you and still hit you with that A of hers from half-screen. Reimu’s still really really strong, I think she needs more spirit drain on her bullets. However, we do have another four characters coming that will definitely be a consideration in the overall balance, and keep in mind that you can quite literally graze any bullet attack. So Reimu can throw out all she wants across the screen, you can just IAD towards and back and it won’t mean a thing.

Using bombs like IC is also something of a mistake. You don’t use bombs to continue chains in shooters, you use them because you messed up and need a reset button. They do have the ability to continue combos, but that doesn’t seem to be their primary intent.

See, I kind of figured this was going to be the primary reaction to the game because it really doesn’t play like any other fighter out there, and when you try to apply other rules from other fighters, especially EFZ, the game will naturally not be as fun or playable. I think you really have to sit down and spend some time with it, figure it out a bit and get a feel for it until the game doesn’t seem so random anymore.

As far as the breakdown goes, I’d say that close quarters battle isn’t anywhere close to a 1/3rd. Maybe 1/4th at best.

EDIT: Looking at the video… Gwyrgyn, that looks like you playing Reimu. You’re not nearly firing enough bullets considering how good Reimu’s are. ^^; Youmu has an edge on everyone else in the demo in close range, IMO, and while you do some pretty good stuff with bomb -> spell card, I think you’re approaching Reimu the wrong way. The last few seconds were more what I’d expect out of Reimu if I was playing her CPU.

If I happen to make Clash 2005 I’m gonna have to play around with this there. =P

16

I typically try and avoid close combat, but Youmu gives you little choice. Melee is still very important in the game, because the dashing setups for combos will yeild a fair amount of damage, and stop someone trying to barrage you from close range. Guard Breaks are incredibly useful, because they are difficult to see coming (especially when masked by a wall of bullets) and will give you time to blast away while the enemy has no projectiles and takes lots of guard damage.

I was rather playing like a retard in that video though, I just like it because it had some neat stuff going on in it. I still haven’t gotten the hang of remembering to just recover roll out of the corner instead of dealing with the rushdown BS.

What I was refering to about Reimu’s layered patterns was the idea that she can stagger her bullets in such a way where you can’t really dash through them effectively. She can do this by alternating setups and thus creating a very lengthy pattern that will be longer than your forwards dash. Unless you can reversal time a forwards dash into a backdash, that may cause some serious problems. More likely, it’s just a matter of canceling your dash and then starting another one… with very good timing. Not really sure though, I have to get some help testing some of this stuff out over the holiday.

17

You can IAD back and forth with no recovery. Even if you flub a dash you can block coming out of it. But yeah, Reimu’s bullets are really damn good, so I was just puzzled when you… didn’t use them. ^^; You can’t ground graze without interruption, though, at least not that I’ve been able to do. I’m experimenting with MvC2-style wavedashing to see if it’ll work.

18

New patch is out. At this point it’s likely just a bug fix, but good to have anyway.

19

No changelist was posted with the patch. It’s for the full version, so patching the demo will only make it crash. According to Tasofro, some minor bugfixes and adjustments to story mode were made.

20

Yeah that’s how it looks. Don’t know when I’ll get the full version, but probably not for a while.