Crap. Whatever happened to your server must have been huge to have lost your database o_o;. I’m glad everything seems to be okay now, but that must have really sucked.
Curious as to what makes you say that. I don’t see terribly much wrong with Youmu in and of herself that’d gimp her.
Youmu’s not terrible, she’s just awfully difficult to play effectively and not very fun compared to other “melee” characters like Iku, Remelia or Yuyuko.
I do like her spell cards though, having always had a soft spot for “clone” moves.
Youmu is better in SWR than in IaMP (not that IaMP Youmu was weak, but she had some fairly major drawbacks).
^That’s true. Hence why I say she’s not terrible. She’s definately improved since Iamp, but she’s still difficult to play, so it doesn’t show as much.
Pachy also got quite a bit better, I think, as did Alice.
Yuyuko was a bit nerfed I think, but not much.
I only have experience fighting Youmu from a friend using her, really- so I can’t really contribute much towards how she plays. My friend seems to love using her 6A (Almost as easy to punish stuff with it as Marisa’s butt bomb), her j.2A and using the spirit ball as a corner trap to cover a jump-in.
I keep hearing Patchy was one of the worst chars in IaMP. What made her so bad?
She has a very strong zoning game with virtually no way to capitalize on it. Because her escape routes when cornered are more limited than most of the cast, and also because her high/low game is pretty much trash her offensive corner game is, well, crap. She needs to blow a bomb to get any real damage off of a high/low and that’s so fast that it’s difficult to hit confirm.
So, she relies on the opponent to screw up and run into her shit a lot, which does happen, but since she has a lot of trouble both forcing damage and reducing damage taken it’s a pretty hefty gamble for her. She’s less weak than she is horribly inconsistent, hence the poor showings in tournaments.
The only character that is genuinely bad in IaMP is Meiling.
Yeah, see in IaMP, you couldn’t use B projectiles when you were at close range, only melee attacks. Pachy never had any solid ways to track on damage after landing a hit with her melee moves (which weren’t the best anyway).
In SWR, she now can get away with using her fireballs at close range during combos, making her able to perform much stronger B&Bs, and making landing her slow, weak melee moves actually worthwhile.
Just… Wow. You do not know what you are talking about in the slightest.
IaMP Patchouli’s melee, in capable hands, is fucking scary. She has a solid air guard break. She has easy, damaging melee combos that work anywhere. Even then, she doesn’t need as much as you’d think as she has good combos pretty much everywhere off of random hits all over the place. The issue, which I brought up in my original post, which you apparently did not read, is that her high/lows suck. That is, breaking through people’s guards. IaMP is very heavy on breaking guard, due to its focus on having an interesting zoning game, unlike SWR. She basically has one shot at a high/low attack and then has to bomb it if she wants to actually do reasonable damage off of it.
This is clearly intentional and meant to compensate for her stronger than average zoning game. She has many, many ways to push you back, force a guard crush, slowly chip you to death, prevent you from moving safely, and prevent you from attacking, but she has few ways of forcing an actual hit in once she gets in. If she did, she would be brokenly high tier. Again, she is not weak, but inconsistent because of the way she has to apply her damage. IaMP Youmu has the same problem, but for different reasons. Can’t really fault Tasofro on this one, the way the game was played evolved in interesting directions after the final patch, which couldn’t have been foreseen.
In SWR, her high/low attacks are virtually useless, as they pretty much suck and the game has a much, much greater focus on interrupting the opponent and frame trapping in order to bait BEs, rather than out-zoning and then forcing a guard break. I really don’t need to begin to explain how bad she is at frame trapping, which is her weakness in SWR, once again to make up for her stronger bullet game.
So it’s more like she’s low tier because of poor tournament showing and general difficulty to use effectively than because of her ability which is actually fine save for a few weaknesses for balance’s sake. That makes sense to me.
I am only repeating what I was told. I tended to avoid Patchy in IaMP because I really don’t like her as a character.
I’m done with Youmu. Moving on to the next character…
who is Tenshi.
I don’t care if she’s cheap…wow…I love this character. I found a new B&B that is a lot easier than her standard 3k combo and deals a respectable 2154 damage. I updated the wiki with it. Here it is for any Tenshi players who didn’t know about it:
5A/f.5A 3A 2B HJC9 j.A j.5A - 2154/2288
Spirit Orb Usage: 1
Notes: in most cases, a slight delay is needed before the 2B
It’s much easier than her best B&B, which I can perform correctly about 20% of the time.
Bah, Tenshi is hardly cheap ^_^.
She has a pretty solid lockdown game and some great anti-air tools but has weak distanced projectile pressure (Her 236 default is prolly her best distance tool). If you’re playing Tenshi, it’s gonna be at mid or close range and you’re gonna be trying to prevent the opponent from going anywhere so you can get in their face and perform a blockstring.
Her main B&B that I use is AAA 5B hjB2 fly towards opponent A, AAA (repeat). If you’re good about it, the opponent can’t escape it without losing a spirit orb or a LOT of life. But the timing has to be tight; I still fuck it up occasionally.
That combo you found is also very nice. I like her B&B better (Mainly because I’m used to performing it :P. I keep accidentally doing so when trying to perform your combo XD.), but that’s another one to use.
This makes me happy in the pants. I found me a secondary. Sorry Yuyuko.
Reisen will always be my main though. XP
I love Tenshi’s default 22C, the falling rock. I don’t use it for offensive purposes, but as a shield. Such a great move.
I love the falling rock. At level 3+, it generates a falling rock on both sides. Though I only really get to use that during the max specials weather.
All of Tenshi’s normal specials are very good save for her 214 ground shaker. That’s best replaced by the alt ASAP, as the alt is pretty much a direct upgrade. Her other alts are kind of like Remilia’s since they range from being very situational (her 623 sword combo) to outright bad (rock shield [22B/C]). Tenshi seems to already start with the specials you need to be effective with her; the rest of her move options are up to playstyle.
Yeah, exactly. Unlike Reisen, Tenshi can get away without upgrading pretty much. the only thing she needs to worry about upgrading is her ground shake and even that’s a luxury. That’s why I think she’s so fearsome. While the opponent is running around trying to find their cards, Tenshi is nailing them with evil frame traps and blockstrings using her incredible ROCKets and their frame advantage on block or hit.
Patchy got WORSE.
SWR Alice is a different character, not really comparable to IaMP Alice. They work completely differently.
Yuyuko didn’t really get nerfed, she actually got a lot of buffs. It’s just that the new system basically makes it hard for her to actually hit anyone.
Are you serious? Pachy seems a lot better from the looks of things. I guess I’ll have to take a closer look at her (I never liked her much anyway).
And Yuyuko’s situation is kinda like what happened to Captain Falcon in Smash Bros Brawl. Some buffs, but nerfed by the new system.
She is fearsome, but definitely has some disadvantages. When an opponent has a good pressure game, you will find it hard to deal with as Tenshi. Tenshi is great once she’s in someone’s face, but getting there can be quite a trial if you’re fighting say, Yuyuko or Reimu.
She’s like Patchy- a very solid character with a lot of good options. They’re both geared to very different playstyles, of course, but are solid in both.
Also, Tenshi’s a great char to manipulate weather with. Her second sword super (the one without the circled kanji) does double damage during weather and then cancels it. It’s a great way to end a Typhoon you invoked ^_^. Tenshi really really benefits from Typhoon.
You mean because of wrongblock making her high/lows even worse or what? Never played IaMP so trying to deduce from what mauve said.
In SWR her projectile game is incredibly nasty and she has one hell of a jump in attack (her j2A). She certainly seems to benefit from SWR’s system; especially the weather itself. So it’s hard for me to imagine that being worse; just the same since she seems to suffer the same weaknesses (weak high/low melee game, very little lockdown and blockstring options).
Well Tenshi is now one of my favourite characters. Time to move onto another one.
Hhhh…I’m gonna try Suika. She looks like fun.
No.
Just come on IRC and learn from asdf and alpha10th. You guys have some complete misconceptions of the game right now.