I love that thing. I also upgrade to the egyptian laser as well, but the other one also has its uses since its wider range. At level 4 that egyptian laser does some amazing damage.
Everything else is very unsafe, though. It seems the best strategy for her is to zone the enemy behind a massive wall of B/C projectiles. Down+B rocks the freaking house.
Landing cancels her attack animations; not sure if that works on her specials. That may be the ticket out of some of the horrid recovery.
I also have a close range combo that I use that isn’t on the wiki. I deals more damage than the standard 5AAA anyhow and starts the same way.
5A 2B 6C j.2A
deals about 2085 but it’s very hard to get all the hits to land. You need to start the combo very close to the opponent, but it’s excellent if you’re cornered and manage to get a jab in. At least it works on Marissa from what I’ve tested so far.
I’ve been mucking around with those controllable whisps she has as an alt skill, and they actually work pretty well on knockdown, since you can follow the opponent around with them. But they leave her kind of open.
As for strategy, I think she’s more about pressuring opponents with her veils of projectiles, forcing them to graze, and then punishing with her excellent melee attacks. She can keep relatively safe from enemy bullets since even her simple danmaku covers so much of the screen. You also need to really know when and how to use her good grazing attacks.
Also, because of her bouncing butterfly moves, she has a really good top-of-screen game. You can fly right up there and then start using her 214 series to rain pain down on the opponent while remaining fairly safe, since if they try to fly up there and get you, you can air dash and use j.2A, which has more range than most other aerial moves.
speaking of danmaku, I have some projectile patterns that I like to use with Yuyuko, a personal favourite being 2B 2C forward air dash j.2A. this quickly fills the front of the screen with bullets and then closes in with a melee attack against the preoccupied opponent.
you aslo have 6C to immediate fan dance, which is a really meaty approach because if they try to graze the projectile they’ll be hit by the melee attack, and if they try to use their own melee moves to interrupt, the whisp will damage them. And Yuyuko grazes the whole time.
Nice find ^_^. I’ll be practicing it too.
The top-of-screen thing is good, but may be too risky against someone like Patchouli whose C fireball circle makes small children cry.
Actually, Patch overall is a difficult fight for Yuyuko from my experience thus far. Patch has some nice beefy projectiles that blow past her butterflies and if they’re smart about it, aren’t gonna stay in a good place for your grazing moves to hit. Seems the best thing I’ve found to do is stay in Patch’s face and abuse Yuyuko’s really good melee attacks; her air 6A and air 2A in particular, followed by a good chain like the above once you’ve got Patchy in your clutches.
Recently I’ve been finding Yuyuko’s normal beam to serve me better than her upgraded laser. And yeah, Yuyuko has one thing over Patch, and that’s big strong aerial moves.
I downloaded the latest patch, and that Yuyuko combo I came up with doesn’t deal as much damage anymore, but on well, it might still have it’s uses.
I’ve actually started playing Reisen and now I’m addicted to her. I don’t think she’s nearly as bad as everyone says. Sure, her bullets are linear and don’t cover much distance, but they come out fast and are surprisingly beefy, cutting through a lot of fan projectiles on their own. Her rocket attack deals a LOT of damage, and can be boosted even more through upgrades and by drinking green potion. Max level rocket + 3 potions = 2541 damage per rocket, which is BS considering the rocket can combo into itself and other things.
I see a lot of Reisen players going on for the offensive, but I like to run away and spam her Sexy Beam. It pierces right through all enemy projectiles and has a wide hit area. It’s even better once you upgrade it to the tracker version. Tracker Sexy Beam is outright gorgeous for mindgames, since you can hold it down and release it just when the opponent fires a projectile, and it completely ignores all other projectiles on the stage. If you have decent prediction, you can pick a ranged fight with the opponent, and set up the trackers as they try to cast their danmaku to move in and get you, and then you release it just as they’re firing, clearing the whole stage and knocking them down. If they think they can avoid it by flying, you can keep holding it until they become vulnerable. I love that attack. Her bullets are fast enough for her to use them at close range, and they combo into the rocket if done point blank.
I’d like to talk about deck arrangement though. I see lots of people using bursts, but my decks mainly consist of supers and skill cards. I don’t have any weather cards either. Is it recommended to have bursts and weather cards? Especially when playing Reisen, I’m almost always upgrading my spells when I get the chance, and I find these cards just get in the way.
Yeah, both lasers are very good. They’re both pretty situational so just keep a small stock of both and swap when necessary. I like to do that with Remilia’s wall dive/ceiling dive and Marisa’s two dragon punches as well. It’s part of what I really love about this spell card system; you can make a moveset that’s malleable to whatever your current situation is.
w00t, another Reisen user ^_^. I don’t play her, but I have a friend that does- so I’m often on the receiving end of her optic blasts and mid-range bullet/rocket spam. Sadly, that also means I can’t say much about her :.
Deck Arrangement! Usually my rule is to have at least one weather card, reversal and booster above anything else.
Bomb - It has some invincibility on startup which can catch the opponent off-guard. Personally I like the reversal card better though- the range on this thing is terribly misleading due to the effect being larger than where it actually hits.
Reversal - When the opponent is in my face, I’m usually guarding; so this has come in handy more often than not. It has invincibility on activation, so if it hits the opponent it is completely safe. It can only be used while guarding however, while the bomb can be used anytime.
HP Booster - When you use it, you’re in place for a while and then you’re put back in control. Your HP will continue to recover slowly for a while after you’re in control, but the minute anything hits you it ends. Honestly, it doesn’t recover enough to be that useful ever.
Spirit Booster - Spirit recovers quickly enough that it never becomes an issue to where I have to recover it with a spell card. That said, I haven’t played with this card much at all. If it recovers guard broken spirit orbs, it could be very useful. Otherwise, eh.
Spell Booster - This is insanely useful. Get an opening to use it and you’ll gain at least two spell cards. If you don’t get interrupted, you get 3. I carry at least two for such an occasion because having a full deck can give you quite an advantage.
Weather - At first I thought these were worthless. As I used them, they grew on me. How weather works is, during Clear the timer counts up to 100. Collecting Red Crystals increases the timer, knocking the opponent down or against the wall cycles the weather about to activate. I like to carry two of these weather cards and if a beneficial weather pops up, like, oh, Typhoon for Tenshi, I activate it right then (That is, if the timer’s not high enough that it’ll activate anyway if I just wait a bit).
Weather also cycles on its own after a certain amount of time, so if you see your favorite weather and the timer is still low/mid, you should use the weather card ASAP.
The other benefit of the weather card is that it speeds up your flight for a time. That’s also quite handy.
It’s sometimes backfired on me (For example; I activate Spring Haze with Patchy only to find out people can just dash into me and I can’t do shit to them) but if you use it tactically, you can create a massive advantage for yourself. Thanks to utilizing this card, I now think of weather as a tool to use to my advantage as opposed to that random thing that screws with the fight.
At worst, if you can’t find a use for the weather cards- use them as fodder for your super spellcards. You aren’t sacrificing anything you might want to keep around that way.
If anyone has anything to add or contest, please do. I’m just listing how the cards have worked for me so far when I put them in my deck.
I updated the Wiki with information on Reisen and Yuyuko. I added a guard crush combo that Reisen has against a corner opponent that might need some tweaking. You need the mind rocket for it to work, and 5 spirit orbs, but it crushes your opponent almost guaranteed and deals a heck of a lot of chip damage.
My Reisen deck contains no bursts or weather cards, so I should think about that. It’s more centered around potion drinking and boosting the rocket. I have 4 Mind Explosion cards and 3 green potions, as well as 2 of those laser burst cards (her standard ultrared field is useless) and 2 of the clone attack cards. I have 3 tracker beam cards too, since I want to get that early in the match. The rest is all super attacks. I could probably use to throw in a few bursts and weather cards by getting rid of the supers, since I rarely use them anyway.
As for my Yuyuko deck, I have 4 of those super butterfly ring cards, 4 lasers, 4 butterfly extensions and the rest are assorted supers. I could use to rethink her deck as well, but she doesn’t need her cards as much as Reisen.
japan already gave up on swr and went back to iamp tournaments, so whatever
i can beat a good amount of people in the irc chan with iamp knowledge only and no actual (current) swr knowledge, so my faith in the playerbase isn’t very high, most of them are stuck at fapping over touhou porn
it’s fine to like the game but pretty much all the top players on both the east and west halves of the fanbase have agreed it’s lol
That’s kinda sad. It seems like it still has potential despite all the random elements.
I think it’s the weather that really makes the game iffy. Random spellcards is not so bad, but having to deal with Spring haze or whatever it’s called is not my idea of fun. Especially when it kicks in JUST as I’m about to finish a combo that ends with a physical attack.
River Mist is also particularly obnoxious. I don’t really mind typhoon all that much.
I really think you should look into weather cards. Reisen especially could stand to benefit from being able to activate Spring Haze or Typhoon. Heavy Fog would also be good since her rockets do so much damage, which she can subsequently recover as HP.
The thing with weather cards is that they’re heavily situational though. There will be matches where they’re completely worthless as anything but sacrificial fodder. As long as you don’t mind that, it’s good.
Ehh, I think 4 of any card isn’t necessary unless it’s a really central card to your strategy. For Yuyuko it makes sense to have a lot of supers handy, though, since she relies on her Bs and Cs a lot and her specials little by comparison.
This situation sounds awfully familiar.
I really do not understand what is so lol about it. I’ve read all about its problems in this thread and none of them are really that ridiculous to me. The good points; the mindgames, the large freedom of movement, the focus on projectiles, the heavy customizability of the characters all outweigh minor issues like the wrongblock being silly in my mind.
And the weather? That’s all a matter of awareness and adaptability. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but if you think of it as an obstacle and don’t pay attention, that’s exactly what it will end up being.
Random elements aren’t inherently bad things; and I don’t think the ones in SWR are really that bad.
You have a right to your opinion, just as I have a right to mine. But I think this game has potential as a unique fighting game. And I think it’s a shame that few people are seeing it :. It’ll never realize that potential without some good players and especially tournaments to help create them. So the most I can do is continue being enthusiastic enough for an entire thread and hope it gets people interested.
Oh it definately has potential. It’s just that compared to the finely tuned brilliance of IaMP, it’s a little…wild.
To put it mildy, this game is like IaMP wearing a giant sparkling afro wig and dancing to Hardcore Happy Rave while exploding sharks are flying in the background.
I personally love SWR already. The random elements are nowhere near as bad as items in Smash Bros. You have some control over everything but the weather, and for the most part, the weather effects aren’t all that bad (the 3 main offenders being spring haze, Typhoon and River mist)
I can understand why competitive players would prefer IaMP, but I think this game should be given another chance. I mean…it’s even more fresh and different than IaMP, which is really saying something. The only recent doujin fighter I would consider to be more innovative than this is Gleam of Force (which bizzarely doesn’t even have it’s own thread here).
Anyway, you do NOT want to block Reisen’s attacks. That girl has evil blockstrings and her supers give off mean chip damage.
As for the cards, I’m fully aware that some of them need to be fodder for my absolutely necessary skills. I’ve considered it and that’s why I only stock 3 of her close range laser and 3 of her illusion attacks and 3 of her tracker beams. I don’t bother to upgrade these once I get them, and the remainding ones serve as fodder for her green potions and the occasional ripple beam super. However, I don’t feel safe only carrying 2, since these moves are vital to Reisen, especially her laser burst and tracker beam.
The absolute essential skills that I keep 4 of is her rocket, and I have 3 of her potions, since I won’t bother getting 4 of them (she explodes and loses all her buffs).
Actually, the game isn’t really that dead in Japan at all. The swr netplay thread in 2ch is always busy with people asking for netplay all the time. I still agree that IaMP is a more solid game though.
Edit: Yeah, I enjoy playing swr too. Always felt that its somewhat like a simpler version of Marvel with all the flying going on.
From what I understand, IaMP is kind of like this series’ Super Turbo. Slow, tactical, by-the-books asides from its projectile emphasis. I’ll be clear; I see nothing wrong with IaMP being a great competitive game in its own right and people preferring IaMP to SWR. I just think SWR deserves another chance too.
Part of the appeal of SWR to me IS how different it is from more controlled, traditional fighters. And I wouldn’t want what is so different about it to change. What other fighter can I dash around in the air like I’m from DBZ or something, flinging lasers and stones at my opponent, hide behind a wall of butterflies and wisps and change my moveset literally on the fly? I LOVE that.
I don’t think carrying two is that bad. But if you’re really making use of a special I say you should stock it to how strong you think it should be.
Also, the green potion thing always confused me. I can’t see that explosion being terribly useful. It was used on me once and I just lol’d. At the same time, so much setup goes into it that there has to be SOME use for it O_o.
By the way, I’m not sure if this was fixed in 1.06 or not; but Reisen’s card shatter super can allow you to skip spell cards in story mode. Often leads to hilarious results on final bosses.
The green potion permenantly buffs her attack and defense, particularly the damage of her specials. AFter the 4th use, she explodes and deals about 5000 damage to anyone it hits, but that’s dumb because then you lose all the buffs and it’s very hard to land.
Generally, I need her rockets to be as strong as they can be, and at maximum potion buff before I consider my strategy to be complete. After 3 potions and max level rocket, she will be dealing half health off one combo. It’s AWESOME.
Half health? Holy crap O_o. And I thought it was impressive for Tenshi to do 1/4 a bar by landing her rushdown. Get all that setup done in the first round and you’ll pretty much destroy the second XD.
One curiosity I have about those potions is what happens to them if Reisen is hit during the animation. Is the buff cancelled at that point? Mainly I’m fishing for ways to prevent Reisen from setting that up. Well, other than keeping the pressure on her so she has no time to use it.
Nope. Pretty much from the moment she puts it in her mouth, she gets the buff. I think you can cancel it if you hit her really quickly, but you can tell when Reisen’s buffed because she glows with a red aura. Nevertheless, I get interrupted by enemy fire all the time when I use it and I still get the buffs.
Reisen hates opponents getting up close, but if you want to avoid her drinking potions, you have to make sure she doesn’t hit you with any of her knockdown attacks, since it barely takes a second for her to drink the potion if she has it. Easier said than done, which is the reason I prefer the potions to her other direct attack specials.
Her Max level rockets deal just over 2000 damage each as they are. With 3 potions, that’s increased to 2541, and the rockets can combo into themselves, and then into aerials. So if one of those actually land, the opponent will take a lot of damage. Since Reisen gets defensive buffs too, she becomes harder to take down.
But those rockets on their own are pretty easy to graze or avoid. The real meat and potatoes of her buffing comes from block damage. Reisen’s main strong point are her blockstrings, and when you have a combo-able special that deals over 2500 damage that hits 5 times and has massive chip, she can easily whittle away at the opponent’s health. This is even nicer when you consider that Reisen has frame traps and things that can be used to set up for her blockstrings.
An alternative to the rocket is the scatter shot. A direct stroke from a Max level scatter shot bullet with 3 potions gives you 3948 damage per shot. With single shots alone, it’s more damaging than the rocket, but it can’t combo into itself and is hard to hit with at close range (except during blockstrings) but it’s still a useful move, especially since it eats up your opponent’s spirit orbs on block, basically making it fantastic guard crushing tool (in the corner, you can break a spirit orb using just 3 moves if you use this attack.) Overall the rocket is still her most useful hadouken though.
I’ve been playing around with her UVfield, but it’s not as interesting as her other options. Still pretty cool if you can manage to fully charge her 5C and then set up a field around the opponent just before they make contact. It WILL almost completely guard crush if blocked.
All this talk about Reisen is making me start messing around with her. You were right, her block damage is totally insane. I’m not that good with her (and she’s definitely not gonna usurp Tenshi as my favorite), but she’s a lot of fun.
I’ll put together a deck and experiment with her rockets and potion some. That damage potential is nice enough that I want to learn how to pull that stuff off.
On a random note, are Yuyuko and Reisen all you’ve had the chance to try so far? What do you think of the other chars?
all of the above elements are in iamp, but moreso, except for character customization. that is the one strong point swr holds over iamp and that i actually like, though i think the spellcard system has some problems (but is nowhere as bad as it used to be).
swr bullets are actually very weak compared to iamp, due to range of movement and screen size. it’s not possible to use them for okizeme and baiting games as much as before with few exceptions because of reduced coverage spread and increased moving speed of the bullets. compare iamp reimu j[c] to swr reimu jb (which is the equivalent move).
swr bullets exist to provide for hjc rushdown. iamp has a greater game outside of hjc rushdown (which is actually a very weak tactic when used mindlessly.
i don’t like fighting games that have outside elements determining the course of the match. this is where we have to agree to disagree. i don’t like smash for the same reason, and smash is extremely popular… but this goes back into the whole iamp:melee::swr:brawl comparison which everyone has retreaded already.
it’s a unique fighting game, there’s no denying that. it’s just that we come across the same schism that divided the smash scene. we’ve covered this territory and we don’t agree, so we’ll just have to move past this.
the few top US swr players all agree iamp is faster. ask them in the channel: magister, asdf, alpha10th. they’ve all played me in both games. at low levels, iamp is definitely slower because of the learning and execution curve. once you reach high levels, the amount of mindgame that goes behind every single move made is amazingly complex and few people will ever reach that point of understanding. this is both the beauty and the fatal flaw of the game.
iamp. lol. (except for changing your moveset)
i know about the vip threads.
i’m referring to the live tournament scene. swr’s had one or two major real life tournaments as far as i know. bullet action the 2nd featured swr as the main game. after that event, the organizer issued a statement and said iamp would be the main game of bullet action the 3rd.
in a country like japan where it’s easy to get live games with people, and in a scene like iamp’s where the live tournament scene has almost three years’ worth of history and participation, it speaks volumes that swr’s main action comes from netplay. a lot of it is going to stem from the fact that many people who play swr are casuals who don’t think travelling for a tournament is their idea of fun and just want to press buttons and see the girls shoot shit around. swr is a very good game for quick and easy fun if you’re a touhou fan; iamp is not.
on a related note, my server is down atm due to a hard drive problem, so you’re not going to be able to access the irc for a bit. i’ll post when it’s back up.
What Bellreisa says about IaMP being faster is actually true because the action takes place on a smaller stage size, and there’s no flying and therefore camping is less effective. In SWR you can move a stage length apart and start a silly danmaku slappy fight with the opponent if you really want.
However, it makes keep-away characters like Reisen worth playing. I don’t think Reisen would stand a chance in IaMP.
Still, I think that if the weather is somehow fixed in a later patch this game will have a flavour of it’s own that will make it an alternative, not a rival, to IaMP in my eyes. One I’d prefer due to gameplay preferences.
But whenever Spring Haze or River Mist sets in, It makes me just want to punch a Yukkuri.
I’m letting myself get good with those two for the moment, but I’m going to try to learn Alice and Yukari next. I’ve tried just about everyone except for Aya, Marissa and Suika.
You can not really guarantee that you will hit the opponent at any given time, nor can you guarantee a way to break their guard if they block, you can only hope that you might succeed by fishing and educated guessing.
However it’s a lot easier to avoid damage than it is to force it. And that sums up SWR.
I don’t expect players of this thread to consider the difference between a mixup and a real mind game or trap. But I will say the existing mixups in SWR are very weak and true mindgames are simply non existent. It is not a very strategical game. But this is not only my personal opinion, many other players have agreed with me, and I’ll just leave it at that.
But anyway. As far as speed goes, believe me when I say that we can make a SWR match last a lot longer than any IaMP match if we felt like it. Anyone can, if they felt like it, even if the opponent does not want it to last long. Which is a huge difference between SWR and most other games.
At low levels the SWR matches might seem to go quickly because players keep running into random-shit and/or getting hit with huge damage spellcards. Low level players just try to rush in and hit you without considering risk at all. At higher levels the players just block. And a good player can avoid being hit for a very very long time in SWR.
In reality though, the average match length for both games is roughly the same, which you can confirm by looking at match lengths in videos upped to nico and youtube.