Utsuho’s attacking and bullet casting speed is actually faster than Iku, and she has the added advantage of being able to OWN entire portions of the screen without even having to try. I definately think it’s not fair that they made Iku slower. She really has to struggle now to gain the upper hand in most cases wheras once utsuho gets out her better alt skill cards she has pleeeeenty of ways to be able to dominate the stage without even having to move much at all.
Uuugh, then yeah, there’s no excuse for what they did to poor Iku >_<.
EDIT: Just saw the Cirno video. Yeah, I don’t think that’ll come up too often in a real match O_o. The weather would end before it does significant damage because of all the red orbs coming out of the wallslam. It will, however, open the opponent up for a typical combo though.
So is this game worth playing / learning over IAMP?
Mother of fuck Cirno is so cute, I want to take her home with me.
Is there a tier list out for this game anywhere? 
As I think, no, it’s not worth learning over IAMP, because SWR is made for casual play only and IAMP allows competetive play.
Well same goes for me.
>Re: Bullets give you a disadvantage - There’s a difference. Some characters can make their bullets airtight by doing a melee canceled into bullet string. Others can not. If the opponent predicts the bullet instead of melee then the opponent is totally at advantage and can punish the person for throwing bullets. However, using a bullet within roughly sweep distance also puts you at disadvantage. I’m not comparing this game to IaMP, but one of the nice things about ANY game with projectiles (from Steet Fighter to Guilty Gear) is they can be used to put you at advantage. It really pisses me off to throw a fireball expecting to be at advantage only to be smacked in the face even if I airdash cancel backwards or backdash cancel. You’re right it does force a close melee battle, which in this game becomes a silly slugfest to me, since the melee types and movement types don’t allow for dynamic footsies. I really don’t expect anyone to understand this concept or even appreciate it, maybe it really is esoteric. But I figured anyone familiar with GG or IaMP would know the joys of tactical cover fire.
>Re: Cover a melee special with bullets and bullet anti-airs - That’s not really a mind game that’s a mixup, it’s called flipping a coin. And I definitely see something wrong with having to guess any and every time some one pushes up+forward. The game is so inconsistent even right down to basic fundamentals like anti-airs. There is nothing consistent in SWR as far as I can tell. Now again you might find that a good thing, but I really really really really do not. It dilutes the importance of skill and tactics in lieu of just pseudo-randomly guessing. You’re turning it into a game of luck. You must have some idea of how incredibly annoying it is to be able to out-play your opponent in every way imaginable and then lose because of one lucky guess. They were not better than you in any way, they just got lucky, how is that fun?
Well even if you throw a bullet and cancel into a melee special, not every character can do that (Hi Alice).
>Re: Large stages invalidating setups - I’ve never been punished while falling from the top of the screen, nor have I been able to consistently punish some one who ran away the same way I do. In a normal game you can control landing points because the landing points are very limited. Even in games like MB where there’s two airdashes and a double jump, you can control certain spaces that they can land in. In a game with flight the opponent can land ANY where at almost any time. Some one good at running away isn’t going to just burn their whole spirit bar and float to the ground right in front of you, no. They are going to use one flight to get up, and save the other flight to make sure they land how they want (away from you). Time limit is irrelevant, it’s not the point of running away. The point of running away is to be able to totally reverse any advantage/disadvantage that would otherwise be caused by cover fire or spirit.
You really shouldn’t (can’t) deny that if I throw a bullet or series of bullets on the ground or air you can safely avoid them easily for however long you want just by going to the opposite area of the screen. If you want to force a melee-to-melee situation, you can do just that by avoiding the bullet flight patterns. Once again turning the game into a melee slugfest.
>Re: Doesn’t Spring Haze consume spirit to graze melee? Is it an insignifant amount or? - I hadn’t noticed. Regardless, it would have to be a lot. Try chasing around some one wavedashing and randomly HJ’ing around like a chicken with it’s head cut off. It’s going to be about as hard to hit some one with melee in Spring Haze that doesn’t want to be hit as it is in Typhoon. Pretty hard.
I think this version of the game might be viable for competitive play. Perhaps not so much as IaMP but the two games are so different that they may as well be considered as such.
There is still a lot of bs that can be done in this game that spans over most characters. Some characters and matchups feel very unbalanced but there are more characters and playstyles to choose from. It may be random but it’s not as random as items-on Brawl. It still rewards skill and punishes carelessness.
Forewarning: Post is going to be huge as I respond to like three people. I apologize in advance :.
Honestly, regardless of what Tasofro says its intentions are, I think there is a competitive game in here. Not one quite on the level of IaMP maybe, but Hisou Tensoku brings its own flavor of pressure, mixups and mindgames to the table. Besides, tournaments can and do happen for SWR- in Japan at least.
Is it worth learning over IaMP? That’s honestly up to you. Both offer completely different experiences; Hisou Tensoku is the MvC to IaMP’s super turbo. There isn’t any reason the two can’t be played alongside one another and it’d be really cool if a bigger community could be had for SWR play, but the consensus atm is that IaMP still offers more of a competitive base.
I don’t think what you described is necessarily bad, just different. I can understand why it’d be frustrating though; there doesn’t seem to be as nearly much depth in a Hisou Tensoku melee footsies game as in something like Street Fighter or in a projectile keepaway game as IaMP.
IMO it’s where the two come together that makes things interesting, though.
This I can’t really see eye-to-eye with. I’m just gonna chalk it up to a difference in outlook.
My view is that you can’t account for everything the opponent will do in the situation you or they have created; that’s why it comes down to a guess in the first place. But just because we’re guessing doesn’t mean it necessarily boils down completely to luck. We’re banking on the opponent choosing what they think is the ideal solution to the problem only to be read and countered at the pass. In my opinion, if you were outguessed, then you were the one that was outplayed because you weren’t reading your opponent correctly.
You’re right- and that’s what I think the point is. Bullets are meant to be used as pressure to make it difficult for someone to get in close and get that melee hit as well as meant to be used to aid the person trying to get in close.
Though, I do think landing space can be controlled at least in a limited manner since spirit is much more limited than in vanilla SWR. Not 100% reliably, mind you- but I can make the opponent avoid a certain section of the stage to my advantage by releasing a frog and a death cloud with Suwako. It’s still way more effective when the opponent is close up than when they’re a screen away, but the opponent has to be there eventually if they want to hit me.
Likewise, you can’t reliably be punished for running away. But I think that’s balanced by the fact that just running away ultimately doesn’t accomplish much except to nullify cover fire- which the opponent can just make more of.
Yeah, you’re absolutely right- it would have to be a lot to discourage just randomly flying in and hitting. And running away during Typhoon and Spring Haze is all too easy, which makes me kind of question the purpose of having those weathers to begin with.
From JP tournament rankings at least, according to the mizuumi wiki, SWR turned out to actually be pretty balanced with everyone ranking within 4-5% of eachother. Though this is Hisou Tensoku so things will be quite different. I guess it’s just a matter of time til we know how different; some char’s nerfs really hurt compared to other chars’ buffs.
http://swr.mizuumi.net/index.php/FAQ - The tournament ranking info’s here if you’re interested.
All the same, yeah, it does reward skill over luck and punish carelessness.
Utsuho reminds me of playing Nu a lot. I still don’t really understand how the whole spell and skill card deck thing works still but I’ll figure it out eventually I think with the SWR wiki to help.
Like I said I wasn’t really trying to relate it to IaMP, but you can basically take any game with projectiles for example.
Guilty Gear is a great example. If you set up billiards with Venom you’re not going to get punched in the face unless you were literally point blank. And even then, if you set up billiards off a melee then it’s safe even point blank. Now when you fire the billiards the opponent can’t just smack you in the face for firing them, no. It puts you at advantage.
This concept is in every single fighting game since back in Street Fighter 2 with Guile and Ryu. It’s the same with Jojo’s. If Mariah tosses knives or a telephone wire or her stand she is at advantage. She won’t get punched in the face unless she did it point blank.
But since you mention IaMP, even with IaMP’s grazing function bullets are still not unsafe. They put you at advantage because the cancel windows are a hell of a lot better than the ones in SWR.
The thing that pisses me off is two out of the three attack buttons two are devoted to projectiles, so you’d think you’d be using them a lot. But they are entirely situational to use, they are unsafe when used incorrectly and practically meaningless most of the time because the opponent can just graze without being punished for grazing in any direction except forward… and only if you have a melee special move to cancel into, which some characters do not, and some character’s only have unsafe melee special moves. Your one true button is the sad little melee button. Throwing projectiles doesn’t help you at all unless they are airtight point blank or you threw them at the opposite side of the screen where it’s actually safe to do so.
And yeah I don’t think slugfests are really as interesting as footsies. Sorry.
Yeah if you don’t see the difference between a mixup and a mind game then there’s really no point discussing it further.
That’s the point. It nullifies cover fire. Forcing the game into a boring melee slugfest. You can’t use it for pressure. And I really do think the system cards compensate in full for any spirit weaknesses there were to begin with, not that there were much. Even if you pop an orb, so what.
I’ve seen tournament finals plenty. Even though I stopped playing SWR1 I was sure to follow tournaments. Know what I saw? Bullets from the other side of the screen from P1, then P2 HJ8 D6 to get around them. Over and over and over. Not just in the finals but most of the tournament. The rest of the tournament was players doing random things at random intervals with little rhyme or reason.
Isn’t Nu agile though? Utsuho is about as agile as a Mark V Tank. She hits like one to which is why I like her so far heh.
Yeah you have a point there, Utsuho’s dash startup and her D startup is really really slow I found.
I’m still trying to figure out who I want to try to main in the game, even though it is just for fun.
I’ve brought this up before, but throwing projectiles from opposite sides of the screen doesn’t actually accomplish anything. I’m having a hard time imagining two people that actually know what they’re doing sticking to that for long. Giving the opponent space has always been bad in my experience, because there is no pressure if you’re not up close.
And really, it’s not as easy to simply retreat as you seem to think it is under such a circumstance.
Well, yeah. If we’re apparently operating under different definitions, then there is no point in discussing it further.
Bullet pressure does exist in SWR. It is how you make the opponents be in the position you want to intercept them. Fleeing may nullify cover fire, but it still gives the opponent an advantage you don’t want them to necessarily have. I really can’t see that trade-off being worthwhile for you, especially if the opponent wants the space to invoke a card.
As for invalidating GCs, is that potion card going to be ready every time you get a crushed orb? Are you going to bring four of them to every match, competing with space that could be used for spellcards, special upgrades or other system cards? Assuming none of that is an issue, is the opponent gonna give you time to invoke it? If not, is taking a hit that could lead into a combo worth recovering the crushed orbs…and defeat the purpose of recovering them?
I’ve been following tournaments too. That hasn’t at all been the case for every tournament I’ve seen, especially some of the ones whose replays are linked from mizuumi.
I’m going to respectfully drop this now. There’s not much else constructive to say and no reason this has to become an argument. I much appreciate your willingness to discuss your thoughts.
I don’t understand about bullets being useless thing. No matter what you do, if you’re constantly firing off bullets you are forcing the opponent to move around and graze, or fire off bullets of their own to neutralise, which is still forcing the opponent to do something. Far-range game in SWR mostly turns into a bullet slugfest it’s true, but the skill comes in closing in succesfully, because usually the person who moves into the mid range zone is the one who initiates the fight, and picking the right opportunity to do this is important.
I just don’t really see these problems so much. Probably because I play characters who either rush down at close range (reisen) or absolutely fill the screen with bullets (Reiuji, Yuyuko)
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I should ask sibladeko if it’s okay to just link his account page overall. He has some great stuff on here.
That reisen was great. I might have to consider making room for that illusion snap move in my deck.
I always knew Suwako was annoying. She’s all over the place like a bluebottle.
What do the little green and blue icons on the cards mean and whats the difference between a spell card and an equip card? I’m guessing spell cards cast supers and equip cards boost them bu maybe you could explain it better?
Read wiki http://swr.mizuumi.net/index.php/Main_Page
But actually you kind of answered your own question. The colored icons tell you which kind of card they are (system, skill, spell).
System cards are tactical cards like bombs and guard reversals that everyone gets.
Skill cards either improve or change your special moves.
Spell cards are supers.
If you didn’t download the full unlock then you probably don’t have all the cards. But if you downloaded the unlock, then you got everything.
I saw that utsuho string vid before. I knew she’d have some beastly pressure but I never got around to testing that stuff out because I’ve been too busy playing through arcade mode again and again to get cards. (and trying hard to win with cirno. Yeah, I lose even against the CPU playing as her. sheesh)
Well, you could just download the unlock for all the cards. But I guess playing against the CPU AI might be “fun”? It seemed the same as usual… linear.