Top 4 match-up structure?

This is something I’ve been wondering for a while. How do the top 4 fare up on a match-up chart? Who counters who? Which ones are even matched? Which ones are overpowered? Ie…

Cable> ??? - ??? - ???
Magneto > ??? - ??? - ???
Storm > ??? - ??? - ???
Sentinel > ??? - ??? - ???

Etc…

I know the big 4 are exactly that, the big 4 in the top tier, but there’s always differences between the top tiers, no matter how slight. Any input would be apreciated…

Edit: In my own personal opinion it would go Storm, Sentinel, Magento and Cable from one to four, but of course I’m most probably wrong and all critique is welcome…

these types of threads are tough because once you put assists into the mix, everything changes.

are you talking 1 on 1? one on one, cable is dead last. imo, storm beats everyone 1 on 1, sent only beats cable, mag beats cable and sent, cable doesn’t stand a chance against anyone.

Yes one on one. It’s the best place to start imo; from there you can do like you said, put assists in the mix and see how it shifts the tiers. Though tiering would be cool, I’m more interested in the actual counter aspect of the match-ups.

You sure about Magneto vs Sentinel? I know a lot of people actually pick Sentinel against Mag/??? teams for his super armour and run away/rush down…

When it comes to Sentinel vs Mag it all depends how well the players know the match up.

With the right assist it could end up even on both sides, but it usually tends to go sentinel’s way if sent has capcom. However there are also counters that mag has like he could pick tron.

Imo the best match up for sentinel vs mag would be Sentinel/Storm/Capcom vs Mag/storm/Tron.

even tho Cyc would be better to counter tron i think it’s easier for Mag to get around Cyc without calling her.

The game is played at Nj screen, if one of the 2 sj, it can be trouble unless they are baiting something.

Over all i think it can go 50/50 regardless of the theory that pixies beat giants.

okay well straight up tiers is
Storm
Sent
Mag
Cable

now ill use ur formula but the character order only means who i think stands the best chance, then the 2nd best chance then the 3rd best chance. so assume that the character before the “>” is the best at the momement and the other characters arnt… i dont know if that makes sense

Cable> magneto - storm - sent
Magneto > storm - sent - cable
Storm > [magneto - sent *Almost a tie] - cable
Sentinel > mag - [storm - cable *Almost a tie]

Now here is my rational.

for cable, magneto and storm have the speed to just capitalize on one mistake, magneto just has more options so he is first then storm and sent through process of elimination

for magneto, storm has the best chance of countering magnetos attacks and playing defense. cable just sucks against mag one on one so sent is better than him.

for storm, its tough, i would say mag has the best chance cuz of his inside game has just more options nad he can sorta chase a runaway storm. however sent might not have the rushdown capabilities but he can play defense and storm will have a hard time geting a hit but mag is just slighty more scary then sent if ur storm. and its only one on one. then cable is last cuz really he is.

for sent, mag litterrally has like 20 extra infinite combinations that only work on sent, one mistake, one on one is a dead sentinel or at least half life. resets galore random hits can turn into an infinite starter. storm is just as dangerous as magneto but her damage output is limited cuz she only really has two main infinites on sent and they are all only capable on a standing sentinel. so she may be able to get those hits in but it woudlnt be an automatic death to sent. If cable is far away he can keep sent at bay and a bad unfly or pushblocked HSF equals an AHVB to the FAce. but storm fares slightly better cuz cable basically has more to fear and he has to be on top of his game keep sent at bay, storm doesnt have to be keeping sent at bay constantly during a one on one encounter.

i know those explanations werent exactly that technicle but i think they are okay

^ truth

and when i say standing i mean standing as opposed to jumping dont kill me. and incase my grammer is bad im talking about the sent only infinite and her regular infinite that she has on everyone.

Storm or Mag for top picks imo.

edit - It really falls back on the assist guy and the player; in which case, you can add Sent.

I’m not understanding whe way you’ve done that… Anyone care to expand upon it? Maybe by not using all the characters? My method example was a bit missleading…

Edit: From what I’ve learned against Cable Magneto doesn’t have more options than Storm because she has her run away. With Psylocke yes Magneto might have more options… Anyone care to comment on that?

1 on 1, cable is garbage.

mags vs sent is all mags because mags won’t get off him. add commando or cyc assist into the mix and it’s pretty free for sent.

storm beats everyone because she can outrush everyone except mags (but even that’s debateable) and if she wants she can just run away and chip with smart hail storms. she’s unbeatable 1 on 1.

sent is a god but 1 on 1 vs storm or mags, he gets beat up. he’s so easy to keep in block stun so you can just work him and work him, eventually land a hit, and combo away.

Sentinel > Magneto
Sentinel = Storm
Sentinel < Cable

Magneto = Storm
Magneto > Cable

Storm > Cable

if storm decides to turtle and run, mags has it bad. why do you think mags and storm tie?

Exactly what I’m thinking… Without an AAA it would be pretty hard to punnish her run away, also without Psylocke Magneto’s mix-ups suffer dramatically. The Storm player would just have to make sure their blocking’s on par and they stand a pretty good chance. Even random sj.lk, sj.lk, HG xx MT can be defended from…

these threads make my brain hurt. one on one threads don’t take team dynamics into play. only storm is better than sent, but fighting solo mags rips him.

mags can’t beat storm consistently. he has the random factor going for him, that’s it. play solid, run away, get a knockdown and mix him up, and he’s dead pretty quick. once you get knocked down, storm can go high low just as easily an mags can. but she can run if she wants and chasing her is an almost guaranteed way to eat headbutt-super. she’s broken.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to eliminate team dynamics from this thread, I just thought it would be a wise option for the sake of the thread to start off one on one, so it makes it easier to see where the changes are taking place and why it gets altered so much. The reason being one on one dinamics aren’t completely eliminated from the game either, it can be the deciding factor. By all means take it into team dynamics, I think we’ve got a good idea of where it stands one on one.

theory marvel is a waste of time.

To those with competition yeah it’s a waste of time, but to those without it can be a great help…

Shit it might even be useful if people would quit being so damn vague.

the game is impossible to approach when you’re talking about it completely wide open.

It’s alot simpler to be specific in each match-up, focus on a duo(storm/psy at first and then move on to a new partner when you’re really familiar with storms basics and how she can use each individual partner. i started with msp and then moved from helper to helper.

If you’d like to discuss “tiers”, try sharing the pros and cons of each duo that you’re familiar with. The real strength of a team is shown when people counter pick and create match-up difficulties. stick to analyzing problems on a per-match-up basis
Ex:
storm/cyc vs sent/cap

storm has really good rushdown with cyclops(commando gets handled by cyclops when you counter call him properly),

great blockstun for ground cross-ups

she can throw into cyclops from certain spots

it’s easy to control sentinels flying because cyc aaa has retarded range and she can either hail behind him or rush and bait.

then try comparing storm/psy point for point

storm has good rush with psy even though she doesn’t have the range that cyclops does in this match-up, her knockdown properties will never give sentinel unfly and that opens up more hail opportunities against aggressive sentinel.

psy has shit for blockstun and thats a big contrast to storm/cyc, she has alot of trouble covering psylocke in close vs sent/cap, she HAS to reposition and sentinel can in turn try and attack psy or get an angle on storm while shes covering her helper.

storm/psy has really good cross-ups, if you call your helper and she trades with capcom or random robot projectile, you still get a combo opportunity. if cyc trades with the opponent, storm has to follow up very quickly, it’s a pretty small difference but it really matters when you add in snap-out. cross-up+psylocke on sent when he calls out his capcom can lead to snap if the opponent doesn’t roll(you also have to time ur psy well). when they get tired of you trying to snap them out, dash next to them waking up and go for more cross-ups using the glitchy wake-up engine.

storm/ can throw the opponent into psy assist with her fk throw, they can always roll this, so it’s not as solid as storm/cyc. as a trade-off, you know the opponent is going to roll ur set-up, so just go rush em down as they recover from the roll.

Those are some pretty ghetto examples but if you wanna get down on some marvel discussion, try and stay specific.

storm is the most balanced character imo, sentinel is really good with capcom vs her, but he doesn’t match-up with the other duo’s as well as she does.

i think some of the players get it twisted around when they see sentinel competing with storm, it’s ONE fight. compare the rest of their match-up differences as well when you’re trying to decide who the best character is.

sent hates cable fights(especially when he’s got drones+beastly aaa), has an even fight with storm(he needs a good helper to really pressure her) and has trouble with magneto(I’ve always thought magneto has some really lucky shit going for him in this match). anyone else tired of walking into attacks with sentinel so you can block them? his damn hitbox is so fucked up i can’t begin to explain it, magneto has retarded combo’s from random cross-ups…seriously? one touch status magnus can then proceed to wipe his ass with the whole team.

aight, done ranting, just thought some of that might help you guys.

So would you say this looks about right? Would someone care to change/correct it when concidering team dinamics, including assists?

Storm - Sentinel
Storm > Magneto
Storm > Cable

Sentinel - Storm
Sentinel > Magneto
Sentinel > Cable

Magneto < Storm
Magneto < Sentinel
Magneto > Cable

Cable < Storm
Cable < Sentinel
Cable < Magneto

anybody who is seriously trying to learn advanced marvel needs to just look for every one of mixup’s posts

he’s extremely generous with marvel knowledge