Todo VS ...

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Wepeel suggested we all do a Todo VS Thread. I think it’s great!

This allows Todo users to come in and ask about Todo’s Matchups against another Character.

When you do post, please Include What Groove and Ratio your Todo is in. And what Groove and Ratio your Opponent is in.

e.g. Ratio 2 A- Todo VS Ratio 1 C-Blanka.

Talk about what problems you have, or what you think can beat the other character etc.

Remember. Just because you haven’t seen a Todo win ______ before, doesn’t meant he can’t. So discuss in peace ok.

2

I can’t beat any groove Chun-li or Rolento with Todo. I get jumped on and crossed up all over and it’s not very fun. What do I do in these matches?

3

Worst pornographic sakura avatar, ever. Despite that, it is amusing.

And his counter super is the shit. It does counter supers also, any lvl.

4

KCXJ what groove are you in and what groove are they in?

5

A-Todo is the only Todo to use of course. :wink:

My opponents are in C the majority of the time. Doesn’t really matter what groove I think though. I always get jumped all over regardless. Any tips? I’ll start using Todo again seriously if you have anything good.

6

I see. I prefer K Todo. He runs.

I played A Todo a long time ago but already stopped.
For A - Todo, it’s a bad match Up against Chun-Li because you’ll never get in close to her enough.

The only thing for you to consider now is poking at her from a medium range with your kasane Ate. Considering her high Jump arc, you may find this intimidating since she can jump and you can’t C.HP her too.

HOWEVER, consider your S.HP (close) . I do not know if you’ve tried it before, however it’s is an anti air for the space above his head. Imagine if you’re in a corner and someone jumps at you, you cannot C.HP him, but you can S.Hp him. It hits. The hit box is above your head .

You might want to add this to your arsenal if you want to. So Chun-Lis now do not have an advantage jumping at you from a distance to do a Phoenix Claw (?) for example.

With her it’s always a zoning game. Don’t expect a nice, nice Rushdown to grab or sweep etc. It’s always measure distance Throw out a wave. See her walking close, throw a random MP. Hop back, throw another wave Wait for her to jump wrong, or escape from a jump. It’s sad really. Where Todo was a Walking wall, against Chun, he’s a total zoner.

And I can’t state enough the importance of his Counter move. You know how Chun Li likes to Poke poke poke you. mp and all that Crap. Spinning Bird Kick into more Punches into More Spinning Bird Kicks etc? Well with other Level One supers (Like a Shinkuu hadoken or even his own Wave Super), she may actually stuff you out so it’s not worth ddoing it. But…nobody stuffs counter supers with a Physical move.

Rolento

Rolento pissed me off only when I’m stuck in the corner.
But once you get used to using Todo’s S.Hp to hit him when he’s right Above you trying to poke the hell out of you, he won’t do that so often.

Now the thing left to do is to chase him down. I personally don’t have much of a problem with his Jump in games anymore because I don’t try to AA any off the wall jumps He attempts. And his other jumps are all fixed so a C.Hp can fix that. (K Rolentos are another problem, but since you’re asking about C.) Unless it’s a cross up, in which case it’s just block and react.

I could try to list some situations where he will do some kind of jump, and how you should react to it. but so many …

Ok
You in the Corner, Him jumping on top of you with the stick poking down - Reaction - S.HP (not c.hp)

You at mid screen , him jumping at you with a fixed jump (KKK or Super Jump or Normal Jump) - C.HP.

Crossing you up. Block and react. If he attempts to jump behind you AGAIN, C.HP or S.HP (S.HP maaaaay be safer, but it’s a BIT slower so it’s up to you how used to are to those moves)

Him at the corner, you are somewhat in front of him and he jumps off the wall. Reaction - S.HP slightly after when he jumps off because that way he can’t really cross you up or get on top of you. He can’t really go in front because he’s in the corner and you’re right there. If he jumps far far away, you frown and scold the other guy.

Him Jumping off the wall, you at Mid screen. Reaction - Super Jump back and watch what he does.

I try to jump a lot and hop a lot too becasue Rolentos rely on your fixed position to want to jump in or do anything that’s going to hit you.

And one thing I’ve always been wanting to learn but forgetting, is that when he throws a quick knife at you, I wanted to learn to punch it out of the air instead of blocking it (I can right? I thought I could.) and then reacting to that, because Some Rolentos rely on that to make you go into block and then they try to pressure you. So instead you punch it out. Your punch retracts before they’re even near you. And sometimes they forget, they jump, throw the knife, you walk forward and Light Punch and immediately do your Forward sweep and sweep them off their feet.

These are stuff i tried a long time ago. Without the RCs. but with RC it just becomes safer.

At any rate, aside from the wake up games of RC Grab or Sweep I’ve heard people mention, i recommend you do an RC Medium kasane Ate.(Frankly I’d just do a normal Light one because I don’t think RCing a Light Kasane Ate is going to be too easy. I’ll go ahead and admit that this RC Medium Kasane Ate is Theory Fighter on my part since I don’t think it will connect with all three hits, and the timing is way different) For a few reasons.

  1. It’s safe for you if he does a wake up, unless RCed. And your kasane Ate is there to stop anything he tries to do (Even if anything hits your body, your attack is already out.)

In corner

  1. If they block OR are hit by it, you can Follow up with a S.MP or C.MK OR delayed Kara Grab. THIS is where the mind games come in after a nice chip.

  2. If they are hit, you can also activate CC and grab them. (Yeah but the damage scaling sucks it all up :frowning: )

  3. If they blocked. You can also activate Custom and RC Grab to waste some time and grab them juuusssttt out of block stun. No they can’t roll out of it. If they jumped up. C.HP. I haven’t tried cancelling or following it by DP Kasane Ate (My consoles are down since half a year ago) but maybe you could experiment that? If you could, their body wouldn’t ‘die’ and you can continue juggling them. If they jumped away. oh well.

You probably know everything I’ve said here. But it’s how I used to handle it in A. Now I handle it in K and it’s something diff already.

7

Hey Roki, how about some strats on A Todo vs. C Sagat.

8

i just started playing todo,and whould like to know some combos,and basic strats for him.I play him in A-groove

9

Gosh. Todo’ll never get in when Sagat is careful. There’s nothing you can RC that will get him in. There’s only the option of Zoning.

This is where you play the zoning game. Sagat can’t run, neither can you. Frankly I feel that this is a match where neither of you will really get a good upper hand.

What would I personally do?

To be fair, This is what Todo has on Sagat

  1. His Fireball beats Sagat’s Fireball and hits sagat.
  2. His Fireball CANCELS some of Sagat’s Tiger Cannon. If Sagat does his AMX Level 3 Ground Tiger Cannon and Todo does his Heavy Kasane Ate, Todo gets hit only by 3 of it.

If Sagat Does the High Tiger Cannon and Todo does his Kasane Ate, Todo ducks under it ala Ryu fireball.

Ok that is only a small small part of the match. but it shows that you can spam Kasane Ates safely from a real far distance WHILE BUILDING METER. (Key)

I hate to say it, but I would really try to get in only with a full bar, which means for the first half of the match, it’s just zoning and chipping what you can, and preventing his jump ins. Luckily Sagat cannot normal jump in at you due to Todo’s strong C,HP AA.

If Sagat tries to poke you with his S.MK, you always have the option to stop the spamming with RC Fireballs.

if the Sagat is clever, he may take a few steps back and jump such that you cannot touch him with your C.HP elbow, trying to close in the distance, this is why you must ALWAYS watch your distance between the two of you, walk with him. Never turtle, you’re only giving him a hance to corner you which is not what you want. Instead, you want to corner him, and frankly, you should have a better chance than he does at this because of your fireball.

I don’t have to remind you that Sagat can roll. And he may just spam rolls to get in close, because Todo doesn’t have a heavy punishing factor in A unless with a bar. So again, this is to do with the distancing. You must remember that Sagat’s Normal jump and Roll covers the same distance, so the distance to watch is your Medium kasane Ate range. Try to Keep him there. Anytime he is out of that range, you’re in danger of getting rolled in, because he rolls, you cannot hit him with anything but a sweep and a fireball. and even if you hit him with your fireball, he’s STILL WITHIN RANGE for a S.MK. One thing that Sagat WANTS to do in this case, is Double roll. It’s when you plan for a roll, and another roll immediately into this one, because if Todo reacts too slow (And his moves can be slow), Sagat will end up behind Todo while Todo is still recovering from his Failed attempt to stop the first roll.

So put simply, with the correct distancing, heres what happens.

You can chip him with random Heavy Kasane Ates. he cannot chip you with Fireballs as easily.

You both can of course, roll into each other, but that’s not something Todo would want against a careful Sagat (DEYO! DEYO!). Sagat does however want to roll in, so be prepared to punish him for it. You CAN try a sweep to punish Sagat, but i suggest a C.MK because it’s meatier and you should always attempt to connect it into another C.MK since it links.

Ok. That’s for the General battles.

Theory Fighter Starts

now how are you really going to go in for the kill? Here’s where Theory fighter comes in because we don’t really know how that Sagat will react. Ideally, once you have meter, you’d try to get in for a CC. The only thing I can think of for mid screen, seriously, is, if you succesfully stop Sagat from poking so much, you dash in for a command grab into CC. If he’s still a happy poker, and you are WILLING to, do a test jump and see what his reaction is, if you sense a Tiger uppercut (Some players purposely wait for a deep one), then you can Activate CC and Grab. I have to admit, that’s pretty much the scariest 50/50 i know for Todo. Anything else I can think off stems off from mistakes sagat make or carelessness on his part.

Theory Fighter Ends

Now how would I REALLY get Sagat (And lots of other characters, NOT theory fighter)
Semi Advanced tactics from yours truly up ahead:

  1. Theory fighter aside, here is something you can always do. I don’t play Todo in A anymore, but I KNOW Todo, and I guarantee these work. If you played your Todo right, and Sagat is in the Corner, you can ALWAYS activate even at Heavy Fireball Distance and Chip him to death with repeated heavy Fireballs. This assumes he has that little life left. This does ,at maximum, 3600 worth of Chip Damage + 3/4 Guard bar gone if done with Heavy Kasane Ate (because you are far away). Sagat CANNOT do counter attack because he will miss you. If you see him doing this, hop and Command grab him. Also, you must NOT do your Super at the end, because it gives him time to roll.

  2. If you want more damage, you can do so with a risk. At Heavy Fireball distance, Activate Custom, Do One heavy Kasane Ate and Sweep , or just Sweep Him, Hit -> Light Kasane Ate all the way. With a Full guard bar, Sagat will break his guard at your last Kasane Ate. If he ever has even 1/6 of his Guard bar chipped BEFORE you start this CC, it means his guard WILL be broken.

again

CC -> Heavy Kasane Ate -> Sweep -> 13 ~ 14 Light Kasane Ates for Around 4000 damage.

CC -> Sweep -> 15 ~ 16 Light kasane Ates for 4500 damage + Guaranteed Guard break. Do what you will after that that, some of you may want to LPLPLP into a Guard break so you won’t waste it, some of you may want to time it so that you can MP AFTER the time runs out so that he guard breaks on that, whereupon you can continue your attack.

WHAT IF HE COUNTER ATTACKS.

Ah, the beauty of Todo. This is where you lucky Speed 3 players must learn to watch for Sagat’s Counter. Once you hear or see the counter, Roll / spam roll. Sagat will fly into the air but you will have linked your kasane Ate into a Roll. Grab and continue his B&B Custom once he lands. It works

  1. Resets. You can ALWAYS try for a reset intead of chipping it away. Just… Reset. Lol. I do mean of course, doing a command grab. Technically it’s not a reset, but whatever.

Weakness of above tactics - Comes at the First kasane Ate and the Sweep. if he counters your sweep, you cannot escape. If he sees you activate custom so far away, it’s quite obvious what you’re going to do. The rest is now a mind game between the two of you. You can :

  1. Pause - in case he knows what you’re up to.
  2. Heavy Kasane Ate, if you just want the safe chipping.
  3. Slide - And hope he doesn’t counter that.

Me, i’d just spam the heavy kasane Ate.

WHAT IF THE WISE GUY DOESN’T BLOCK.

Ok, heavy kasane ate into sweep links as a 4 hit. Continue with 3 C.HPs and Normal Light kasane Ate, into a super. This juggle CC does around 4000+.

That’s about it.
Zone
gain Meter
Try to push sagat into a Corner.
Start the shit.
Get in at least 3600 damage with the safe Chip.
or Move in with the sweep and go for the kill and resets.
Repeat.

Happy Playing
And remember, this is only for A.Todo VS C.Sagat.

10

Ok, last post was semi advanced strats for A-Todo

Now for the Advanced strats (What… you didn’t think there would be more???)

Some of you may have noticed playing A-Todo, that When you do a Far Wave, if it connects (blocked or unblocked), you can do two standing punches successively. This is because the program registers The wave hitting, then registers your first punch, but it also registers your first punch as a hit (although it was really far away) So you can immediately cancel it into another punch. (Actually it works for all characters, as long as a projectile hits, whatever you’re doing can be cancelled)

Now try this. Hit your CC. With opponent in Corner, Throw a wave from your max range, such that your heavy Kasana ate may hit him for its full three hits. Once you throw out the wave, tap your Heavy Punch twice fast. You will actually step forward for the first one, and then step forward again with the second one, thereby CONNECTING with the opponent. That’s 4 hits. Of course short opponent = Whiff.

This works whether blocked or unblocked, as long as it hits and you do a move WHILE the wave is on screen, it will allow you to cancel any NORMAL move into another move immediately, as if you had connected.

So what games can you play with this?

in my last post, I mentioned following up a Wave with a medium kick then into chipping, that’s fine. And that’s the safest.

however a more advanced version would be to Throw a wave, and hit heavy Punch Twice. The problem with this is that if the opponent, counters this wave, it WILL hit you since you are in a standing position doing your punch (As opposed to doing for sliding kick on the ground.)

The good news is that if your opponent is blocking down, and is a small opponent, your two punches will WHIFF and you can immediately command grab them.

If they are blocking up then you can just try to continue the cc from the previous post.

Some of you may be thinking, how I about I throw a wave, and then slide over with his Mk and kara that into a grab? Let me tell you, that if a wave hits, the body is standing, and you would rather hit punch twice and hit him rather than try a lower damage, slide over to grab him version. Which i have to admit i never succeeded in this combination (I didn’t try that many times too. It’s harder, does less damage, and may cause you to trip him which means you have to go for the air CC.
If it was blocked, you can’t grab it because it’s in block stun anyway.

Now. How is this information useful?

I can tell you that this means you can punish Ken’s Whiffed Uppercut HALF A SCREEN AWAY. Full Ground Custom.

SHORYUKEN! (misses)
You’re half a screen away, PING Activate CC, Throw a HEAVY wave, it connects, meanwhile, you slide with your Forward MK and before it hits cancel into a S.HP. You just, sorta, teleported next to him and chopped him in the face, and you can continue from that. If you are anywhere closer than half a screen, of if he was in a corner, just hit two standing punches in succesion.

This ALSO means that anyone who does ANYTHING stupid half a screen away is going to be hit with a FULL CC. Almost Bisonish eh?

This almost makes me want to play A-Todo again, but I’ll stick to K for now. If you have success using this as a Punish, please drop me a note and tell me how the other guy screamed.

Fun facts :
Command grab (1200) , walk Forward Close MP (900), Activate Custom, C.HP (728). Continue with CC.(Beginning does 9 Stun)(2828)

The hardest to do, not the most damaging. But it allows you to have more stun.
Compare to :
Command Grab (1200), Activate Custom, S.HP (896) S.HP (896)(no Stun)(2992)

If you are Stun Happy, then you can start with Jump HK(10), Close MP(9), CC anything, and end with the Universal Todo stun end CC. (Grab just as CC finished, Wave -> MP-> Wave. 34 stun)= 53 stun. Better than nothing right? right? I mean, one more grab into B&B and he’s fainted.

Roki out.

Edit : Alas, I forgot to put in the most obvious add on to this. In the previous post, it was mentioned that if you were at max wave length when the opponent was in the corner, you activate CC, and you Throw a heavy wave, instead of going straight for the Slide Kick or Punches, you can keep throwing waves to see if he blocked it or not. If he blocked it, go ahead and do what you will (choose between a chip CC, or go in for the Grab). If he didn’t block it, go straight for the punches in so that you don’t trip him. Of course the whole point here is, Throwing more Heavy Waves Give You Time To Deecide How You Want To Continue.

There.

Roki really Out.

11

Tons of good stuff here. Listen to Rokiseph!

Anyway, I’ve finally found a matchup for Todo that I need help on. P-Cammy renders my waves almost useless thanks to the auto-parry…her Sword (s. HK) gives me many problems, and she is not too scared of doing low jump attacks on me. (Of course, that’s after I stop with the waves…)

Her spiral arrow also gives me problems. I know the shotos have c.mp to deal with that nonsense, but does Todo have anything? Next time I get access to a DC, I’ll try to find stuff…in the meantime, I need your assistance, SRK…

12

RC command grab through the jump ins and c.mp works on her spiral arrow. When you land that command grab make sure you get the most damage. like walking in close s.mp, c.mkxxxsuper, or go into CC. Also use tiger knee waves.

13

I cannot consistently RC command grab a jumping cammy when she’s performing jumping lk. Can you? I end up whiffing a throw at point blank range, and she can hit me with pretty much anything.

C.mp the spiral arrow on…reaction?! The arrow is too fast. After reading your post, I was still skeptical, but I tried, and try I did…with very disappointing results. With shotos and Guile, I am able to somewhat spam the crouching punches, but not with Todo. I’m not sure what you mean when you suggest using c.mp against spiral arrow.

Tk’d knee waves eat lots of s.RH by cammy…

So as you can see, I still have problems with this matchup.

14

Hi Wepeel :D, I can’t help you much because I haven’t seen your gameplay with this particular Cammy, but this is what I can do to help…

Cammy’s Spiral arrow has three stages, the start up where she twirls, the middle part where she hits you while almost reaching the ground, and finally where she lands on the floor if she failed to hit you…

Now, Todo cannot spam C.MP, but he sure can Spam C.LP to try and stop it, this is where you have to practice the rapid button presses to make him LP Continuously to discourage her random spiral arrows…once you get this right, it’s almost 98% she cannot hit you because you will hit her out of it(1st or 2nd stage). Now if she spiral arrows and she falls short of you, sweep.

It may sound ridiculous to a lot of you, but thats what a lot of people do (lplplplplplp) VS Blanka Balls and Honda Headbutts right?? Well, it works for Spiral Arrows…

As for her Jump LKs, just trade C.HP for it…you should be prepared to Press C.Hp anytime she does a short jump, at the most you trade because

  1. If she presses the Kick early, you’ll trade
  2. If she presses the Kick slightly at the apex, you’ll trade
  3. if she tries to go in deep with her LK, you’ll hit her because you pressed first.

now the thing about this strategy is that For both these movements you are crouching and Spamming LP, waiting for her to Low Jump and LK whereupon you Trade (or hit) with C.HP. So it’s Kinda convenient if you aren’t spamming your waves…

Now the next step is…what to do if she just comes in to S.HK you? This scenario actually means that she got close enough to you doesn’t it? Thats what you are preventing with the wave…

Now, You are A-Groove correct? One thing about A vs P for Todo is this, They may auto parry your waves, but when they do so, it considers as a hit for you! It’s not a bad thing because you DO want to Build up your Bar, and them parrying it builds around 1/16 of your bar… Of course, it means that she will build her bar too, but hey, you WANT a full bar right? Don’t worry about spamming your waves. When you can’t hit her with your Heavy Waves, she can’t hit you with her low jump LK. Keep her away and keep her away and keep her away.

With her high priority moves and comboability at her arsenal, please don’t think you’re turtling or being a coward by keeping her away, it’s all Todo has against the mistress of terror. (Sakura is the Mistress of horror)

I don’t know how this affects your gameplay now…but do tell me where I erred in trying to help, and we’ll see what other info may be useful to you…

15

C.mp isn’t that hard on reaction. You may miss a few times but overall it isn’t really hard unless cammy is doing it really close which she shouldn’t be doing anyways. For the RC command grab as an AA, you have to do it late in order for you to grab her as she lands, just practice it. TK waves have to be done with discretion. the best time is when she jumps, after a knock down, when it’s guaranteed to touch your opp., or when she’s near the corner.