I’ve been in Computer scene since 2005 ish. I think I came to conclusion, that home or residency organization has no future. The biggest success I’ve had in this type was 17, and despite near damn everything I do the scene never grew. The reason being, that I think, is that even when the tourney organizer has zero drama with participants(speaking from personal experience, I have no real enemy in SoCal doujin, for instance), there is bound to be a drama. Another factor is that home gathering is hard to locate and parking is a nightmare if participant count goes over 10. Hotels work out, but they’re pretty dog gone expensive and spaces are extremely reserved I haven’t tried this out yet, but the alternative to this is to rent out a space at internet cafes. This way, folks can kill time whenever they’re not about to play, tourney area when not playing, get easy parking access, and things look more professional.
The best places to play are at colleges and universities that participants go to, almost all of them allow students to reserve a room for free for any purpose. Some of them require that you have a club, but it’s usually really easy to set one of those up.
TOTALLY AGREE!
I was thinking about something like #2 myself. Only I was thinking about locking TV’s/systems up in kiosks like you see at Gamestop or Wal-Mart, but most tournaments would never be able to afford them, so this is a great alternative.
And yeah, setting up a stick check would also be a nice feature to help people feel more secure about their stuff. Especially if they’re just running a short distance away from the tournament area, and going to their hotel room would be out of the way for them.
Also, if there was a stick check, a similar system could be used for consoles. Number the consoles using a sticker when a person brings one in for tournament use, give that person a tag. When that console is no longer being used, tournament directors/organizers unhook it, and move it to the stick check booth. Person who donated the console, upon leaving, can return his tag for the console, thus assuring if someone leaves w/o the gear they came with, it’s most likely their own fault.
Yeah, but what would you do with folks who are done with school?
I have now voted 5 on this thread, just for the sight of Ultradavid defending 3s.
This.
The vibe I’m getting from the Cannons & co. is that their long-term goal is to professionalize this scene. If this is the case, newer games will be a necessity. I recall that one of the staff members has recently said that attendance numbers are often not the largest factor in their decisions, and I have heard that the large number of old games was a reason Toyota dropped them. My personal opinion is that Evo is better with 4 regional qualifiers and prizes for top 8, and as such I would like them to have that sponsorship back. Hell, maybe one day they could get enough resources to go back to 8 games!
Plus human beings are naturally resistant to change, often irrationally so. I would not always follow popular opinion in areas like this.
If your goal is for your scene to grow, “out with the old and in with the new” is the route you will eventually have to take; games like Marvel & CvS2 essentially stopped attracting new players after a while, and ST only got some new people because of online play. Now, if you run your tournament not for numbers but for the old-school crowd or whatever (i.e. MWC), then I agree that you can stick with the old-school games without worrying.
I think that’s going to be the question that people will need to deal with in the near future: Do we run our tournaments for the SRK veterans, or do we cater to all major communities and/or focus on the people jumping into the scene? If it’s the latter, then you may not be able to keep 3s/Marvel/CvS2 - yes, SF4 apparently hasn’t killed 3s in Socal, but it remains to be seen what will happen in the rest of the country.
There’s too much theory and too little practical shit in the first post.
People like to give suggestions like they will help with equipment or staff and how to prevent stealing, but when it comes down to a reality almost everyone is like fuck it, why help and waste your day doing shit for other people to try to support a scene when those people will just say this sucked or that sucked or their shit got stolen cause they are some dumb girl who left a camera on some random chair and expected it to still be there while no one was watching.
Back on subject. As far as choosing games, I have tournament room reservation for March and I can do basically whatever I want. Sounds great right? Not exactly. Without equipment or people who care to help run shit a tournament can’t really go down. Also there is a huge difference between a ranbat at an arcade with a few people to a large in place tournament. At an arcade you just tell people who to play, take the winner, and continue the bracket. You don’t worry about anything else. In a venue certain shit must be watched and taken care of, since it is not an arcade, you need to get equipment such as TV’s, consoles, etc. A person can’t do everything themselves and you would be surprised how few are willing to help with TV’s in reality. Now back on track. For games in March, it’s most likely going to be Street Fighter 4 and Marvel vs Capcom 2. No item brawl is most likely going to happen. A lot of people want Fate and Melty Blood (there’s a scene here in Brooklyn) but one person can’t do everything and unless this time I have people who sign written shit and literally agree to help run them it’s not going down.
To be honest, I hate threads like this because a lot of people bitch on forums about shit needing to be improved but in real life most do nothing in real life to help the scene except bitch some more.
I think tournaments should be for the players’ enjoyment. I’m for the growth of the scene, but not just for growth’s sake; I only want growth because growing the scene results in more and better competition, and that’s good for the players’ enjoyment. Where growth conflicts with the players’ enjoyment, well, obviously I come out on the side of having the players enjoy their tournaments. I think for a tournament to drop a popular game for the sake of newness, like with Evo considering dropping Third Strike, would be totally retarded.
If a new game is good, people will play it. That’s how things always have been, and always will be. The idea that fighting gamers won’t pick up new games unless tournament directors push it on them is an absurd notion, and really overestimates the influence of majors. I don’t see why the selection of tournament games should be anything but reactionary. I think it’s really unfortunate for the GG scene which is actually growing, yet it’s a forgone conclusion that BlazBlue will knock it out of many tournaments.
If I came off seeming like I wanted to get rid of the old games completely, then that is not how I intended it to be. I was trying to say that new games should make a transition, get tested first before they are deemed “worthy”. I’m not saying to allow broke as hell games into tournaments, I made that list of games, because those are almost all the new fighting games coming out, or have recently came out (but you can’t judge a game before it has came out, even if it has a poor track record). I don’t think games like MvC2, CvS2, or 3s should be phased out immediately, but I do believe that some of these new games have a potential of proving as successors to this generation of games.
In 1998, there were a whole bunch of fighters that came out… SFA3, MvC1, SF3: SI, T3, VF3, KOF98, RB2… The latter 2, we didn’t play (tournaments), and see where we are with that game (talking about KOF98) compared to the world. There were lots of reasons why this happened, American arcades didn’t get it being the main reason.
But bottom line, the player support will decide whether a game is played, not the tournament organizers. Happened with Alpha 3 (when it fell), happened with 3rd Strike (when it rose); it’s the reason why obscure games that may be good, don’t get supported.
Yeah, I think this a problem as well. I’m sure there are people that like to play the specific game, or seem interested, but they aren’t able to get involved, which destroys it. Something as you said would do wonders for this crowd, like in pro sports, try to simplify it enough (but not so much dumb it down), so that the viewers that don’t have the knowledge for it can quickly (and understanding quickly is important, because their attention span will go elsewhere) understand, or have an idea of what is going on in a match… even better if they understand the critical points.
You’re right, I’m sure the very educated tournament organizers understand this, but there are a lot of organizers who might be clueless, or not keeping up. I want to get this out right now, before there is a topic about something that went wrong at a tournament, because something that might have been stated here, wasn’t followed through. It’s best to prepare for the future, than stay content.
I had a feeling that this was a problem, which is why I said that tournament organizers have to work together; but even still, I believe the TrueSkill rating was meant more for online, rather than offline. I can see another way of how this could work, but it would have to keep track of every single player in every single event, even local ones. I’d like to see a ranking system, because it adds more validation to the competitiveness of a specific game. I can’t imagine if there wasn’t a ranking system in sports.
I’d also like to add on that while tournament results are a usually a good indicator of the top 1 and 2, there are sometimes brackets a very good player gets placed against the top 3 and ends up in last place.
Uh…not always.
Yeah, that goes back to what I was saying about Arcana and MB.
it would make no sense for tournament organizers to not pick up on the new and move on. the old games weve been playing is all great but thats because nothing new had came out recently to warrant putting down old games. the phrase out with the old in with the new applies heavily here and that can be seen in the newly developed games as well. theres nothing wrong with the original ST yet they are redrawing the sprites and creating a new rebalanced game so people have a new game to play. sf4, as much as people wanted it to follow its 2d roots using sprites still it now uses 3d models on a 2d plane with a new system thats a hybrid of old a new.
its natural to want to hang on to something dear but at the same time these new games wont get the light they probably deserve until after the old games die out.
Did you read any of what was said to the contrary?
Yeah, that’s an overly simplified statement. I meant, if people like a game, they will play it.
Yes.
Now whether a game will be played at the tournament level, I still say it’s ultimately up to tournament directors to decide that. Regardless of what players think about X game, not everyone wants to run a tournament featuring X game.
yeah i did and im also stating that despite how favorable the old games are they need to be set down for new games to come up. if they dont then, like i said, the new games wouldnt see the light they deserve.
It doesn’t sound like it. Nobody has even played the new games, so who says they deserve any time in major tournaments? Why is it just recently that everyone has this concept any new game trumps all old games. Why can’t we judge new games the same way we’ve judged every game that has come and gone, and if enough new games generate enough of a scene to eclipse old games, then it will happen on its own. Why does it have to be pushed on the players instead of it happening in the natural way it always has?
lol naruto
Tourney directors DO support less-popular games but the playerbase usually is NOT there to create a major event out of it. Again, it’s the players deciding what the big event games are – the directors are most often scheduling games as a REACTION to what’s being played, not setting the agenda.
This thread is pointless, haha. Pherai said exactly what I did too but I don’t think we’re being heard at all. Of course 2009 tourneys will support the new games people are playing anyway in addition to old, I don’t see where there’s a problem here.
im lost as to what are you worried about being replaced? its been a while since fighting games in general have had a year like they have had this year. why wouldnt you want some new games in? if the player base is still there for the old games cool but the new games have to start somewhere with some tournament being the outlet for that new game.
Do the new games also need food, water, and shelter? Look, stop personifying these things. They’re not people, they don’t need to come up, they don’t deserve anything, and they don’t have to start anywhere. They’re games, and they only matter insofar as people play and like them. If people don’t want to play them or don’t like them, oh well, not a big deal. The idea of forcing a game on a tournament just to give it a start completely misses the point; tournaments aren’t about games, they’re about players enjoying games. Until players play or enjoy the new games in numbers that outweigh the old games, there’s no reason to have the new games in major tournaments.
Who cares?