My definition of sandbagging= not playing 100%. This is the thread about sandbagging, different play styles etc, if you wanna talk about any of that from any of the other threads just talk about it here.
Whats your definition of sandbagging. Do you do it? Why or why not?
When I read your threads, I figured sandbagging was messing around (like you said) while analyzing your opponent’s style so they can’t catch yours.
To be honest, I never give it my all (even though I try to sometimes, I just can’t) unless there is something on the line like money, tournament, etc or if the player is flat out better than me in every way, which is very rare for me to find. I don’t really care for collecting win streaks.
If I wanted to learn someone’s style, I just watch that person fight with others. And I don’t go out of my way to analyze people unless I’m already there (I won’t drive somewhere for the intention of analyzing). I think that’s taking things a bit too seriously.
That’s just my style anyhow.
Yay. We got another thread that’s going to turn into complaining and bitching. Wonderful.
Hey guys… remember how this board was supposed to be about KOF and people wanting to expand their knowledge and increase their skill level? Yeah, what happened to that.
Thanks for your input. I understand everyone does it (the ones that do) differently. Different things work differently for people. For me getting a large win streak is pretty boring quite frankly so I side with you on that…once the win streak starts getting really big I start getting very bored, even losing interest in playing that game.
They are expanding their knowledge…about more than just KOF, about different styles of play and everything else.
Just by saying that you don’t play for real at a tournament cause it’s not a money match or when you lose 3 in a row is a slap in the face to all the players in the tournament. Cause the reason why people enter tournaments is to challenge themselves and to play the best so they could learn. Also with this being said I have just lost a lot of respect for you as a competitive fighting game player and playing in tournaments is all about pride to me.
Now to reply to your post-
Tournaments are about winning, so I do what it takes to win…all it is to it. You don’t have to agree with it, you don’t have to like it, you don’t even have to respect it, but it’s what has been working for me since Day One.
You just have to acknowledge that everyone has different ways of doing things that’s all. I pride myself on being able to teach people without giving away too much for the tournament.
I’m sorry but I don’t believe in giving it my all in casuals…I do not see the point of it. In my POV, at a tournament you are** AT WAR**, everyone is your enemy. So I help people out, play them as much as possible etc, *but I ain’t gonna TEACH MY ENEMY HOW TO BEAT ME.
*
Once again you don’t have to agree, but it’s how I think. Why are you at the tournament? That’s right to win. Have you forgotten that’s why I’m there too? Read Persona’s post…have you lost respect for Persona too?
If you have that’s fine…that’s not gonna change my approach…I’m not gonna change what works for me just because someone else doesn’t like it…
-DG
Well I’m kind of trying to say that for casuals, I just play in the way where I have fun over winning (while I still try to win obviously, just not obsessed with it). An example is, if I play roulette in KOF, it’s harder for me to get a 15 win streak than playing for the sole purpose of winning by tier whoring which I find boring, unless there’s something on the line, then I will go all out on the player no matter how strong or weak they are. I don’t feel like tier whoring for 15 games.
But that’s not the case with alot of people in my country. Alot of them play to win as if their life depended on it. They tierwhore in every match, abuse all the dirty stuff in the book and expect me to get angry when I lose. When I lose, I simple insert my credit and wait in line while talking on the phone or doing some other random thing. When it’s casuals, I don’t care, I just play to kill time and do something else. Even in tournaments, I rarely get angry when I lose. At most, I just blame myself to how I lost.
My vote for sandbagging is no. Although if you’re already there, why not? So it’s a yes too, kind of. But it’s much more towards no because I can do something better with my time than going around analyzing people over a game.
I take fighting games seriously but not to the point where it ruins my emotions. If I lose, I lose. If I lose to someone who got lucky or used some abusive glitch, I whine to my friends for like 5 mins then I already forget about it.
I gotcha. I agree, thus for me picking random characters in casuals etc is a way for me to test stuff out etc.
This is the other part of the equation. Imho at least, when I teach people stuff, I sandbag and play against them with as many characters as possible so they can learn as many different characters as possible. If I wasn’t doing that they’d only get my mains all the time and that would severely limit their exposure. I also agree with you about getting angry when I lose, I dont get angry, I’m a pretty good sport, but I do take it seriously when I get home, because I believe in learning why you lost so you can do what it takes to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Thank you for your contributions!
:china:
There is nothing being learned here. What knowledge on different styles of play is being shown here? Nothing. Any thread that’s about gameplay and learning gets caught up in the nonsense clash of views that poisons the board. It’s unbelievable really. How many months has it been? And people are still bitching over crap.
There’s a KOF 2002 thread DG. You say you represent Mexico and I know Mexico LOVES 2002 so why haven’t you posted anything in that thread? Don’t tell me it’s because of some petty shit like “Oh, Emil started that thread so I won’t post there.” You’re going to let your dislike for Emil and his beliefs get in the way of helping potential new/inexperienced players who are willing to learn?
We have at least 3 threads on non productive bitching going on down here. And that’s sad. It’s like a mini SFIV board down here. Nothing positive will come out of this pitiful complaining that’s happening here.
And as for “Who’s the best at KOF”… the solution while not easy to make happen is rather easy of it did happen, play those who everyone believes is the best. When people say that Japan is way better than the US at SFIV what did the US players do? Not have 3 threads on bitching. They let those who know nothing speak their nonsense while they were leveling up. You say you’re a high level player then forget this worthless complaining that is spilling everywhere and do what a high level player would do. Do what it takes to prove who is the best.
You know this bitching is not productive and you know the best thing to do is try to prove who is the best with ACTION not just words. Other high level players don’t bother with crap like what’s going on here for a reason.
For me I don’t sandbag at tournaments or casuals. Cause I’m there to win like I said pride is everything to me in fighting games and I always play my best cause I want everyone else to play there best because that’s the only way to learn not by having someone playing halfass against you that’s not learning at all.
Me when I play casuals at tournaments I play my best and if people ask me how do you beat that move etc. I’ll tell them because I’m confident that the skills that I have acquired through out my time playing the game against the best the Northwest and Japan has to offer.
Um…He is talking about tournaments tho and not casuals. So the vids that you posted up are they of the comp or casuals of the comp? If you say thet are of the comp and you go all out but dont want them to find a way to beat you, well to me its one or the other. How can you go all out but not use your best strats?
I think the problem here is that its not that people arent agreeing with you because you are wrong, its because it doesnt make sense. You quoted that at comps its all out war, yet you arent picking your best team nor playing to your best. You talk about adaption and exposure and experience yet when you do pick another team (exposure) you arent even playing to full potential (adaption) and you shouldnt make it your obligation to use everyone just so other can feel what its like to play against (experience / exposure) if you arent willing to use them properly and especially at a tournament level. Again, which leads me to believe if the comp level isnt to your standard / higher OR there isnt money on the line, regardless if its comp or not you wont go all out. Thats pretty much saying “Hey Im only going to go all out for Mr Kof, Kane9999 etc and sandbag the rest, but if you put money on the line, you are worth my time in playing properly because you paying”.
Isnt respect and pride enough to go on the line for? I know that that is more important to me then money. I rather have more respect from fellow players and members then more money. Or has that boat sailed off in the USA? If thats the case, Im hurt for the USA players because if thats the mentality well i dont see room for growth and only for personal gain.
Well back on topic, my personal opinion of “sandbagging” is different and as I said in another thread i dont even like this term. To me, who DG uses sandbagging is “mucking around” where a correct term for sandbagging is “purposely not spacing, missing combo / attack opportunities”. If i was playing someone and I did a obvious whiff that could easily be punished but doesnt, thats sandbagging.
Thats my opinion on the matter and i think this thread will again be an “agree to disagree” thread.
Also:
sandbagging:
-To deliberately perform at a lower level than you are capable of
He was sandbagging at practice, but kicked ass at the track meets
-Deceiving someone by pretending to be weak, or (in cards) to have a weak hand.
-Sandbagging (racing), a driver deliberately drag races or qualifies slower than what the car can actually perform.
-Sandbagging (chess, billiards), a player deliberately plays worse than his or her true potential to lower his or her competitive rating, typically in order to play in a future event with a lower rating and consequently have a better chance to win a monetary prize.
So sandbagging is deliberately playing worse to make it seem like you are beneath the level you’re really are at.
2 and 3. I’m doing that, but at the same time I’m also trying to interact with the community. Most high level players wouldnt do what I’m doing, they’d just do what they do and not even bother with this site at all. I’m trying to stay involved in the community, even if that means getting involved in the nitty gritty discussions and tell people about things I’ve seen etc. So while all this is happening at the same time you all SEE that I am doing things as well (Hammer vs. Mexico etc) so it’s not like it’s just talk, things are happening around you.
Thanks for the contribution. I respect that everyone has different ways of thought. I know that what works for one person may not work for the rest. :china:
At a tournament however, not until that first dollar bill is dropped, or the tournament matches start, I am not going to give it my best, CERTAINLY not against people like Kane9999 and Mr. KOF or anyone like that I won’t…it becomes an UBERCHESS MATCH against those types…Now if I lose three matches I turn up the level of play, but STILL DON’T PLAY MY BEST in casuals. I just don’t see the point.
Sure you can do that, but at tournaments i’m in it to win it, thus if that means screwing around in casuals until the tournament starts thats what I’ll do.
Your definition of sandbagging falls into mine too, I do things to test them out, because as you know the CPU reacts differently than people, so I am testing how certain things work on people as well.
Thank you for your contributions DC and Hatred Edge, much appreciated.
I take it that casuals > sandbagging right?
I never sandbag although I don’t play seriously but all that matters to me still is if I still win (why lose on purpose and waste more money paying to lose?). So I muck around but I don’t lose on purpose unless I had to leave or something (in that case I just leave my game and tell them I have to leave).
Also if I catch people sandbagging me, I would think they’re trying to humiliate me. I would be unamused… or consider it free wins while I also start mucking around more so they can’t catch my true style.
Isn’t playing casuals enough to learn someone’s style? Casuals to me = mucking around while STILL trying to win.
Thank you for your definition of sandbagging. :china:
Yes, thus for me I make sure to feel my opponent out with other teams than my main so I can get a good feel for who they are gonna use/what they are gonna do in the tournament.
I dont play purposely to lose even in casuals, but I don’t care if I lose if it’s casuals because it’s not a tournament, it counts for nothing. I don’t mind that person getting the ego over a measly casual victory, let them beat their chest, they’ll see what that cost them in the tournament when I play for real!
I’m like you Persona, I ain’t revealing my true style to someone for free, I paid my money to travel just like everyone else did, so I ain’t gonna expose myself for free to everyone, I’m in it to win it!
I have to sandbag in kof 100%, none of my friends are any good.
I’m having fun teaching them though, so hopefully in the future…
Although I don’t really see anything wrong with sandbagging (if you want to do it, then do it) but I also don’t really see a point to it. If you’re looking for their playstyle, whether they like to rushdown, turtle, poke, etc, you can already see it in casuals. If you’re baiting them to take out their hidden mindgames out of their sleeve, I highly doubt they will because you’re degrading your skills by sandbagging (as in you’re not trying to win and you mess up).
An example is say… empty hop tactic in KOF.
If you’re sandbagging and letting them beat you easily, they don’t need to go to the next level and reveal empty hops to you because they can already beat you easily because you’re purposely messing up, so in the end, you don’t gain anything different from playing casuals. If they’re beating you without effort then why reveal their secrets? Doesn’t make sense to me.
EDIT: actually after reading orochan’s post, I realize that I do sandbag, but only to friends (they know I sandbag but they just play for fun anyways. If I go all out on them, they’re not happy with it) and people who are on a totally different level than me (like I might act like I purposely mess up a combo so they can get to my last character but these type of players never notice I sandbag). My method of sandbagging is more like giving a chance. I don’t sandbag to learn hidden secrets from experts so I can counter them in tournaments. If people are going all out even to noobs, I don’t think anyone would like to play with them but everyone is different, I’m just not one of those type of people.
Thank you for your contribution. :china:
1 and 2- This is the metagame within the game when you get two Professional Sandbaggers going against each other. This is where things get tricky because both are sandbagging. This is where recording casuals to me comes in handy, if that person is a threat I will be sure to review their matches prior to the tournament whenever I can to prepare myself for that should I see it in the tournament. Sandbagger vs. Sandbagger matches are very very tough, but fun in my opinion lol. Even if I was playing a Professional Sandbagger I knew was a threat, I wouldnt show them everything because then they’d figure me out. I’d take whatever I could from them and go to the drawing board with it prior to the tournament IF I CAN.
If I’m at home teaching someone, my goal is to train them to get accustomed to seeing things and know how to react.
If I’m at a tournament, everyone is my enemy, so I’m there to win.
Like this video, this dude sandbags the first round then proceeds to destroy DSP in the 2nd and 3rd…
[media=youtube]Vl70bnMSmW4&feature=related[/media]
Thank you for posting that and contributing. Think about Rugal in 94 as the Boss, or Krizalid in 99, first round they are just feeling you out, second then they show you their true colors…