i’m pretty much a scrub when it come sto fighting games. not that bad but not that good either. =p
anyways Playing low tier chrs sort of seriously doesn’t seem to popular in fighting games. add scrubs like me and its double suck hehe(sort of like the sawed off vs nasher in gears 3 i guess except im the newb that doesnt like using the sawed off hehe). for me i tend to play chrs with fun technical playstyles but are not extremely execution demanding their. guess more of the C+ tiers that are sort of average, not to hard to play execution wise but hard to get good with
the thing is except form chain head stomping/poking people with bision i really never got good with the cheap chrs either and i wonder if its really worth banging my head agiest the wall trying to learn somone like dan, dejay or Juri as a mian chr over lets say all the akuma, rogs, yuns and 5 versions of ryu i see everyone play. i guess the question is are all these good juris dans ect more of a side chr for people that have master a tier 1 chr or are there experts out there that Master these lower tier chrs and sort of suck at playing an A tier chrs? =p
yeah, tiers only matter at a VERY high level, where the player having one more tool than you out of 30 makes a big difference.
by the time you get to that level. picking up new character or adjusting your game with yoru current character will be easy enough to avoid too much frustration unless you just love to moan.
Actually tiers are super important at beginner levels in this new generations of fighters. Tiers are created with highest level of play in mind but they have huge implications of the path to learning a character as a beginner. Take for example trying to learn Yun vs Dan, because Yun is higher tier you can see people play him on almost any stream, there are more people to answer questions on the Yun forums, Yun info is basically being shoved down your throat if you are focused enough to learn it all. The lower tier a character is the less resources you have, less stream time or youtube videos, less experts in general and you end up having to teach yourself a worse character, as opposed to someone else having a better character taught to them.
One of the things i’ve learned trying to get new players into fighting games is that you get much better results when you level with people up front on the hardships they will face and not let them get blindsided by them later and crush any fake confidence they had built up. Play who you like, but you are but lower tier characters not only have less tools to win with, they are more difficult to get high level info on. It not cheap, its not stupid, it actually makes perfect sense, it just is what it is.
Tiers are completly irrelevant on lower levels. If anything, a seperate Tier list for beginner level would say something (with eg Gief rocking the Top of the chart since nobody can zone and he deals the most damage up close).
No, you don’t really get much more information and an easier learning curve if something is high tier. If Viper and Gen were the S-Tiers, they would still be terrible choices for beginners and they wouldn’t be played much online. Basic characters like Ryu/Ken will always be the most played no matter their tier. It just so happens that the current S-Tiers (YYF) are all “fairly easy” to play and thus being picked up by many.
Just play whatever you want to.
I’m also a beginner in the fighting community and I can tell you that the tier list is thrown out of the window when new people are playing the game against each other. The person who knows the combos for character(s) and is more comfortable in certain situations wins. It’s really that simple.
Which is why I wouldn’t reply with the answer you did, it only holds any water if someone wants to stay a beginner forever; as soon as you start trying to get better all of these things come into play.
Thats what I was saying in my post, when people start off with a set of “beginner rules” and those rules get crushed as they want to get better thats when a lot of beginner give up. Its better to just start people off with the truth.
Saying you don’t get more information is just wrong, but tiers don’t effect the learning curve, What they do effect is how many people besides you there will be to figure out shortcuts, timing, and tech and make detailed explanations of them for you.
Most played yes, but thats still not what I’m talking about. In Vanilla SF4 Ken was by far the beginner favorite, but ryu was higher tier and there was way more useful relevant info on him than Ken.
Giving someone information or advice that is only useful or relevant to a beginner is harmful to then getting beyond that level.
So having more people besides you there that will figure out shortcuts, timing, and tech and making detailed explanations of them for you doesn’t effect the learning curve? …
If I just take a quick glance at Yun forum and compare that with Abel/Juri I don’t see how Yun forums have more and better information?!
Now I’d like you to find a pedagogue that agrees with you on that…
It doesn’t make viper easier to learn if you don’t have the coordination to play viper, no matter how many videos or tutorials or guide books exist execution is still on you.
The Yun forum doesn’t have more information than either of those because Juri and Debuted in Super, and Abel in Vanilla
The key word there was only, if you are teaching something that that is going to be built upon later which is what most pedagogues do, everything is fine, but when the new information completely undercuts the old information it completely different.
Lets take your “gief is a good beginner character” example, Gief does very well when both players don’t know what they are doing so thats excellent “beginner advice”, He has a no motion anti air, an easy way around fireballs, alot of health and a simple mashable high damage punish. Starting out someone with gief would build them all kind of false confidence around beginners, and as soon as they stopped playing against beginners they would learn that not everyone is going to jump toward them that gief has some of the worst matchup in all of SF4.
What I’m saying is don’t start someone off telling them Gief is good when you know he has glaring weaknesses that you aren’t mentioning that will make getting certain wins very hard with him if they ever decide to advance in the game. If someone want to play gief they should play him, but be up front with them about Sagat and the whole full screen zoning vs grapplers matchup.
As someone who learned Dan in SFIV before any other character, you can get good by playing shitty characters first. In some instances, it can force a LOT of necessary critical thinking that’s necessary to develop a good, solid and fundamentally strong playstyle.
However, it depends entirely on the character. For the most of my Dan tenure, I didn’t have to worry about links so much. There were some tight windows for Danku traps, but generally, it wasn’t something I had to worry about. Not playing other characters hurt my execution development when it came to link timing. I’ve taken steps to rectify this, especially now that Dan has tons of them, but I feel that it’s pretty late in the game.
Feel free to learn whoever you like, but learn the whole game and you should be fine. I regularly take high execution characters I don’t play into training mode and do combos I’ve seen or just want to dick around with.
To be good with a low-tier character, you don’t have to pick a high-tier one. You just have to master your character and understand the game. This may come easier because you’ll be backed into the corner more, but you’ll still need to train smarter AND harder to turn bad matchups into manageable matchups when paired with skilled opponents.
most times I fare better with low tier characters. Reason is that high tier characters have so much potential that I am not able to use it and lose as a result. Eg if I were able to do C.Vipers move (knuckle stun, high jump and flame kick) things would be a lot easier. But that move is impossible for me to achieve.
tiers are different in lower level of play. For example yun and sagat are powrful when they seem to be manageable in top level, and fei is sorta mediocre but amazing in top level.
Just level up your game and only complain about tiers when you’re on top.
Dont know how this became a discussion about tier lists, but 1 thing is for sure, most of you are wrong imo.
Every layer of the fighting game comm. has its own tier list (scrub, beginner, intermediate, semi-pro, pro). Most of the tier list show are correct when it comes to the top tier characters but fail afterwards, cuz thats were the “pro-factor” kicks in. Pro’s know how to compensate for weaknesses in their characters design or know how to abuse their strengths better than anyone else. They find new elements to a game that might swing match-ups in their favor. There’s are reason why Dhalsim-Blanka is considered 4-6 in Japan while its considered 6-4 here, that Claw-Honda is 6-4 there while its 4-6 here or that Makoto-T.Hawk is 4-6 here at best while its 5-5 there. The list are constantly shifting cuz they actually take the time to find new shit instead of practice old when they know they have it down.
So to answer OP’s question: No, low tier characters usually dont rely on gimmicks but on solid fundamentals so practice them. After that try experimenting a lot so you can find new tactics.