If it was 2f more than it explains a lot more drops, but I thought it was 8 frames for PS4 and 7 for PC. To be honest it’s hard to compare test results though because they weren’t all using the same setups.
For example, 8 and 7 frames came from FourWades article stating, “My new data shows approximately a 1f difference between the two versions. PS4 average latency clocked in at approximately 7.9 frames of input lag, whereas the PC version averaged out to be approximately 7.1 frames of input lag” We’ve based the 1 frame difference on this as he presumably used the same monitor and arcade stick to get accurate results.
However the initial PS4 test done by displaylag in March showed an average latency of 7.3 frames for the PS4. The newest test done by displaylag claims 6.5 frames (less than a one frame drop), but they didn’t use the same setup as before (no LED), so you can’t really compare those two or say it really dropped to that. Until they have the same exact test setup and compare both we won’t know for sure how much it has dropped over all.
There was also a test done by battle non sense which showed an average of 8.2 for PC using an xbox one controller with v-sync on. With v-sync off it dropped to 5 frames. No test was done on the PS4 though to compare.
Another test was done by moonchilde on SRK showing a 1 frame advantage over native PS4 controllers using a legacy controller and a 2 frame advantage over those using Brooks converters on PS4. The test was done via counter hits though so it didn’t actually measure input delay only that one controller was indeed faster by showing which side won the counter hit when using the same wired button. However no test was done on the PC, so we can’t say for sure if they had the same input delay there.
The most definitive answer comes from Capcom, wherein the update stated there was a 1 frame additional input delay on fight sticks (not pads) used on the PS4 and now all are unified across all platforms. The only test we know of that was done on both setups showed PC at 7.1 frames, so we should be able to conclude that pad on PS4 and stick on PC were both 7.1 frames. That should mean only arcade sticks were 8 frames on PS4 or 9 frames if you were running a converter. Since no one tested if convertors were also slower on PC we can’t know for sure, but those may have been 2 frames different between PS4 and PC. I personally use a brooks UFB in PS4 mode and it always felt like more than 1 frame of difference between my PC and the PS4 but I had no way to test.
Since we don’t know if anyone tested the same setup using different controller types (pad, stick, legacy) between the PC and PS4 we can’t really know for sure, but regardless I’m glad something was done to try and fix it before the end of the year as it was driving me nuts having to play on PS4 with that difference.
Hey @WydD , I have no idea of how you did this test… but if its a simple .exe that you could easily share… I’d really appreciate that.
You know how FrameTrapped had a combo tool for USF4? That was extremely useful…
I REALLY want to test other things, like how many frames I have to hitconfirm Cammy’s crMK, stHP and crHP, compare it to other chars like Ken etc without having to ask to TOOLASSISTED everytime for this kind of thing heh.
Hey @Haztlan
a) It’s not a simple exe, it’s now basically a framework to control SFV using python. You can see how it can be used in a small video I made about the first 2 frames of recovery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjwhvXVycEA
b) For now I dont want to share this because basically you can cheat pretty easily with this kind of work. For instance here’s how I beat the survival a long time ago using a bot I developed in a few hours with this framework https://twitter.com/WydD/status/714941358667075585/video/1
Maybe I can make a small tool just to execute perfect inputs (that dont work online) with frame advantage just for the lab but I dont have time to do this kind of things right now, maybe later.
But you know… I’m not a programmer but I don’t think you need something with frame advantage or anything like that. All we need is something that does a certain input after 16,66ms and the rest is up to the tester to make it work. But yeah man no worries, if you have to develop something so that simple users can use it then don’t mind it. And thanks for the explanation.
SunTzu81 can confirm it. It’s a weird motion, something that definitely needs to be practiced for muscle memory. I still need to break my old habit in live matches.
I know. I can do the EX fairly consistently. I just can’t figure out the height for the normal ones. And I apologize because I’ve probably vented this 4 times in this thread alone. One day…
What is your old habit in live matches, 963214?
Speaking of live matches…Am I seeing the best Cammy players in the world; Kazunoko, Poongko, etc. dropping IACS about 10% of the time? That’s what I’m watching when I see a tournament and I see a random IA jHK or IA jMK, right?
@Greenwood The biggest issue with it is the timing. You can try different inputs to get the right timing but you still have to fit within that window for it to come out, so if you move your hand faster or slower than what someone has shown it’s not really going to help you. The EX is easier to do because the input window is slightly larger than the normal input window. Once you get the timing down you can repeat it like BM has shown, but I still have issues with it especially in a fast pace match. I whiff it and think why didn’t I just do it the easier way? The EX one is viable due to it’s fast speed but honestly I don’t see much use for TK on normals with its longer wait to be able to activate (some may disagree). I only see it being useful in meaty situations where you need that first frame of activation to land on them when waking up. In other words don’t stress the insta dive kick.
On your last question. Yes I believe they are dropping it.
Yes old habit is 963214. The problem with 963214 is that, for me at least, it does not seem consistent with getting it as low as I like. With TK, I know that it’ll hit where I want it to hit. I dont play the game too often working 12hr shifts at the Hospital. So even though I know how to TK and can do it at rapid succession, when stress comes into play [losing] sometimes I revert back to what I know due to lack of confidence. I just need more time doing it against live opponents to gain more confidence with myself.
The motion reminds me a lot of Magnetos MvC3 Rom. Back then it took me awhile to get it to muscle memory then translate to live matches. But eventually I was able to do it with confidence and with very little drop. It’s doable and like I said SunTzu will confirm, he saw my video with inputs on.
Another things I’ve been practicing is blockstring placements to catch mashers and techers. Made a video awhile ago on the difference in spacing so its something I’ll lab up again next time I get a game session going.
Interesting. So there is a decent risk/reward in even attempting this motion. The reward is obvious, but if you fail, you lose all pressure and even risk some damage against you if they AA.
It’s hypothetical, and I know you guys were talking about the timing being different since the latest update, but do you think Capcom will ever loosen the window to make it easier, since they wanted to make SFV easier on the inputs and tops players are still dropping this? I am unclear whether the new update made it easier, harder, or just ‘different’ for you guys.
The input delay change just made it feel “different”. Lets say you press a combo in certain speed, that timing is changed and now you have to readjust in a sense. Best example I can give is probably mvc3 magneto flight combo using lag emulator in training mode. Change the lag input and the timing of the combo changes. Guess another way to look at it is the sensitivity.
Do I think Capcom will further reduce input lag? Well tbh, I think Capcom intentionally intended for the input lag to make offline similar to online so that the gap in difference is not much. They basically just made it so that ps4 is on par with pc. Something about controllers adding an additional input lag on consoles. So now both systems are averaging 6.5F of lag. I think SF4 had about 5F? So do I think Capcom will further reduce the input lag? I’m not sure. The game will change a lot with further reduction.
You can definitely feel the change playing against people. A lot of stuff seems easily whiff punishable. Things feels a lot better to react to. I’d say Cammy got an indirect buff. She is a footsie monster.
@Greenwood the loosening of the window doesn’t really work in the way you are thinking. Basically with tk divekick you are referring to the buffer window which is how much time in between the movement of the stick and the pressing of the button is allowed for the special to come out. Input delay is something different. Yes input delay affects the timing of when to hit the button, but not the time you have to hit the button to activate the special. If Capcom loosened the window so the tk dive kick motion could be done and then the button pressed much farther apart then it wouldn’t really be instant dive kick as they could technically set it so you could activate it all the way to the end of your jump. Currently and correct me if I’m wrong because I read this back in like March the buffer for tk divekick is 5 frames for EX and 2 frames for a normal, so you have to do the motion wait and then hit the kick within those windows for it to work. If you hit too early or too late you just get the kick. In most cases increasing buffer windows ends up with you getting a move coming out that you didn’t really want, so I wouldn’t recommend increasing that window. If you want a dive kick to come out just do the normal motion. The SPD method works well for me as it helps me delay long enough for the dive kick to hit minimum height.
You’re right, as I was typing it I was questioning myself. What I should’ve asked was - Considering that Capcom wants to make combos and inputs easier in SFV, would they ever eliminate the buffer window all together? Or would they ever make it like SFIV, where you can do IACS from an inch off the ground? I can do those in my sleep.
I assume Capcom did think about this and purposely made it with the height restriction, otherwise Cammy would probably be crazy OP.
