I agree with that.Except Elena should be in B not in B-.
Her mixups are ridiculous.
its easy really.
makoto is the only char in the game who can easily do 100% damage with one grab. (and this applies to mid stamina chars such as ryu/ken)
even against the highest stun meter chars, she can deal 95% stun with one grab and sa2 meter. after that she has knockdown advantage with crossups, grab again, short hayate, short overhead ex chop, fierce hayate, etc, etc. and after her juggles which btw do more damage than chuns sa2, she will have another half super meter back again.
her jump ins are really safe and hard to parry. her dash ins are fast as hell. her tick to kara throw has really long range. her overhead chop cannot be punished forward and on jump in. and one grab with just an ex-meter can still deal an automatic half stun.
i rate dudley over ken/akuma because he does huge damage & 50/50 in the corner. his overhead into sa1 does about kara demon damage on ryu. one mistake and he can punish you severely with ex machine gun and juggles. very good block damage, very fast jump in, very good stamina and huge stun meter. oh and he has tricks up his sleeves.
I think Yang is the most often forgotten character in tier lists 
roflll
i forgot about yang.
I’d put Yang in with Ken and Akuma.
Chun
Yun
Ken/Makoto
Dudley
Yang
Akuma
Urien
etc etc
'WHAAAAAAAAAT?!?! I agree Necro might have moved up in the tier list, and partially cos of recent JP ranbats cos he’s just been used more often lately (mostly the veterans coming back but also guys like Yakkun who might secretly have been hoarding away their Necros from the general public lol).
I don’t think Necro was EVER as low on the list as Sean and 12! I DO recall, though, a strategy guide the 1st year the game came out, and it said how much worse Necro got since 2I/NG, but I think that was an oversight that was quickly corrected.
I think Necro’s b+mp helps him a LOT. I’m STILL admittedly unsure if the move pushes him a bit further from grab range or if it just stuffs pokes when you thought a throw attempt was coming instead, but I consider that and his db+hp to be his best pokes for stuffing moves and punishing whiffs (db+hp mostly to punish after parrying when you don’t have meter). Db+hp is good for pushing opponents back for breathing space, and to get them closer to being cornered. Of course, b+mp has that great hit-confirm and unlike b+mk, if you don’t hold back, at least you get another cancellable poke (although st.mp misses on those damn low-crouchers).
I basically agree w/ the tier lists overall, regarding Necro’s placement, but I still think he is slightly better–or at least as good as–Alex.
I guess my Dudley is just crap, and/or it’s a matter of damage, that explains why Duds is above Yang. I find Yang SO intimidating sometimes, or it’s just that the best U.S. AND Japanese players make Yang look so formidable O_O Seiei Enbu is no GJ, but it can be quite scary, also.
I would say Makoto is equal to Ken or perhaps better. She’s still a gamble character w/ her grab but that means she has the potential to handle ANY character on the roster. I consider her to be the worst match-up for Chun and Yun, besides those 2 against each other lol.
Has anyone ever played a good run-away Oro? I guess I overrate good run-away players, but Oro seems good at controlling the pace of the match against other characters that DON’T have good run-away games (that serve a purpose, of course). 12’s runaway seems mostly for the confusion/frustration factor as opposed to meter-building, e.g.
I’d say Akuma and Urien are about even. I don’t tend to feel threatened by Uriens these days. Supposedly, trying to stay mid-screen against him lowers his # of options for Aegis set-ups and comebacks. He has to get momentum, which is a lot harder for him than someone like Makoto. RX is still amazing, and while he might be at the top of his game, the other players at KOW surprised me cos I thought RX’d be getting more (and bigger) winstreaks. Boss’ Gouki is very elusive and aggressive as needed. Even w/o the teleport, his Gouki seems hard to pin down during any match. He’s so good at controlling the pace of a match and I find him entertaining partially because his patterns aren’t as obvious to me.
I’m VERY glad that Kuroda was talking about how good Denjin Ryu can be. I’m partially just weak against good Denjin players, but I guess I just have to be wary of the many set-ups they have…
HUGO has moved up that much? That’s amazing! I thought Q was starting to outrank him? I also thought Q has an edge on him but I think Hugo has priority such as his jump-in hk that’s hard for Q to AA. I thought Hugo also has a good kara-throw that might nullify the utility of Q’s k.t., but it doesn’t get discussed much these days…?? If all the JP players were doing walk-up 720s w/ ease, that would help though lol, although in some of those godsgarden matches, there was an SAIII Hugo beasting! It might have been Matei, although I forget if he picks SAIII at all like YSB.
12 has more options than Sean. (On a side note, I wasn’t sure if cr.lk for 12 was a cancel on its own cos it’s HARD to determine how many hits of his super will hit ANY opponent in most given situations.) Some recent evidence is Moge’s 12 in the ranbats O_O Sean is nothing w/o meter (barely any combos or good damage options). He has some of the good shoto pokes but unsafe specials; his taunt doesn’t seem that useful; nor his tackle fake. He’s basically waiting to connect super like Chun but he doesn’t have her GODLY kara-throw or priority. Again, there are some interesting JP matches from godsgarden, but I’m not sure who were the players, and I think they were just screwing around during those Sean matches (practicing, parrying, etc.), but it’s hard to tell, beyond the chuckling I kept hearing lol.
I always thought Makoto should be atleast 3rd followed by Ken or Dudley. Dudley and Ken pretty much equal. I agree with Urien being behind Yang and Akuma. The last 2 years we’ve seen his unblockables become less useful.
They must have some unusual rationale for ranking Hugo that high. Oro is underrated.
i agree with roms list
but i can agree with arcadia’s as well
worlds…torn…apart…
I like Deadeye’s list… the rest would look something like this:
Oro, Ryu, Necro, Elena, Ibuki, (they are very very close)
Alex, Hugo, Hugo, Remy, Q
Twelve
Sean…
IMO my list
elena with sean and twelve
lol
Elena is pretty good, you can play faux-Chun using her, with SA2 and cr.MP, which is confirmable. Her poking game loses cleanly to Chun’s, but she still has more to work with than a good part of the roster.
Dudley is better than Makoto IMO. He does better vs chun.
I’ve been meaning to ask- Why/how did Hugo go up in the rankings? What was discovered about him that made him appear better than what was thought years ago?
Also could someone elaborate more on Elena’s position in the tier list please?
Tier list talk has got to go in 3s. Thinking about what someone elses opinion is on a matchup can really influence your own opinion, whether negatively or positively. Does Japan’s/or another region’s opinion about the matchup really correlate with the competition in your area? There are nearly limitless possibilities in 3s. Just play the game and develop your own feeling for the matchups.
Tier list talk is about TOP level play. Competition in some random area doesn’t matter at all, which is why tier lists are generally uniform unless, truthfully, some other area knows something about xxx vs yyy that would change the matchup.
@ letbloodrun - i understand your point but makoto can still off over half the cast with one combo. i accept chu v. dud as a 5/5 and chu v. mak 6/4. i believe the main reason makoto is higher is she has more favorable match up’s than dudley and i think tier lists are generally a numbers game. i’m also excited to play your chun to see how much you’ve advanced 
@ De4dEyE - mak v. yan is a match up i never really thought wasn’t in my favor until i played you. i am excited to learn more from you at evo
Also Remy should be moved up in the list imo i’m sure Dagger_G would agree his normals are pretty gdlk as well as his kara throw lol
Even so, there’s no basis for quantifying matchups other than some top players were asked to do so. Tier lists in this game are over simplification at it’s worst.