Wait, is this a tier list on ease of use or effectiveness?
Being one of the rare types of Roll players, I think she places higher than the lower tiers. Her potential as a viable threat has not been reached, but the tools are there.
For Ken…he can wreck people pretty hard. Here are some things I’ve observed when playing Ken users.
His basic combos will eventually pop a person in the air for VAR or a Barqoue combo and/or a Super.
He can combo effectively starting from the air.
On average you can expect damage above 15k once he gets a combo in.
Teleports and his charging attack add some great maneuverability too. Mix in a Baroque or an assists and it gets worse.
Can’t, like, everyone do that?
Ok that sounds reasonable.
15k actually sounds kinda poverty to me.
I think this is reasonable as well.
Like if this is all he has going for him, I personally don’t see why he would be considered top tier. He just sounds good to me. I mean, I just think it’s kinda weird someone would stick him in the same tier as characters as gdlk as yatter 1 and zero.
IMO the most important part is his ridiculous DP special. HIGH ass priority, safe on block, fairly easy to combo off of w/ the right assist/bbq, Can be used to follow up standing overhead (ie. 6b -> 623a -> BBQ etc.). Thing cuts through zero like butter.
Standing overhead places him in the air allowing for some interesting mixup/combos.
Damage is a bit higher than 15k. Ken’s dmg output is more around the 20k-25k for his basic combos -> super finisher, while on the higher end of his combo ability (w/bbq and/or assist) he can reach anywhere from 30-38k pretty easily.
Air dash j.b can lead into 15-25k combos on standing/jumping/airdashing characters. i.e. IAD j.b 623a j.b land j.b j.b 623b bbq etc. So he has the potential to create a pretty good amount of damage from any hit anywhere on the screen.
He can do relaunch combos.
Standing a can be used as a ghetto anti IAD tool that can lead into his B&Bs.
And finally he has some really quick, long range, high priority normals.
Thanks LaRence, I don’t know Ken well enough. Your description makes a lot more sense then my attempt. I round down too low, haha. Adding to LaRence
His basic combos will eventually pop a person in the air for VAR or a Baroque combo and/or a Super. This is generally true for everyone, but with Ken you’re looking above the 23k+ range. He’s extremely good at comboing properly (extra damage + able to finish w/Super) when tagged in via VAR…
I meant that he’s able to combo a person from any position for both characters. Crouch/Stand/jump, all of them lead to high damage combos.
And I agree on his normals. Those things have stupid annoying range. He has a quick, Guile sweep-like low that combos. And his standing A’s are pretty good too.
His lvl 3 super is one of the best unscaled damage Supers in the game (though a little hard to setup into)
All my explanations can do is give a basic idea on how Ken is threat. I think if you talk to Ken users they might be able to better explain his usefulness. Phampy is pretty good with him, and his and GCYoshi’s team took the TvC 2v2 side tourney @ EVO.
Yeah basically just going off what’s already been said, he’s got strong approaches, awesome normals, really high priority on everything, and with the right assist, he can turn any random hit on the ground or in the air into at least 20k. Also, that overhead is free damage.
You said it very well. Ken’s Bird Shot might just be the best special move in the game, and in TvC: CGoH he could do it twice in the air. Even though he got stripped of one in this version he’s still really good. I’m probably going to throw him in A tier in my personal tier list which is currently under construction.
Ah thank you very much. This sounds much more reasonable. By the looks of this, he seems to be good for different reasons (not just things like stupid damage or good lows and shit like that). I might have to spend some more time with him.
Ken is my main. I love that guy. I would certainly say he’s A-tier. That guy can control the fight so well with all of his teleports and bird shoots. And yeah, he can combo off anything, which is really sweet. But how can he relaunch? I never knew he could do that. I will say his 1 bar supers aren’t the best. They are pretty damn weak. Fortunately, though, he can combo into them after just about anything.
I also play Joe. I would rate him a sold B-tier character. His normals are all pretty decent, has a super-armor move, angled and straight projectiles, a decently safe air super which he can easily work into any combo. What really puts him over the edge, however, is his 2c. If you happen to find yourself comboinig away at someone who’s blocking you can typically use that move to get the hell out of there. He also works really well with ken. They can extend each others combos under the right circumstances.
I think Tekkaman is also a solid B-tier. His damage output is crazy, with or without a bbq. His assist is awesome, and he has decent supers. Unfortunately he’s slow as hell and has to be played very carefully.
I like playing Saki as well. I think she is probably high C-tier or low B-tier. She has tons of tricks but really requires luck to push things her way. Its like a game of preemptive rock-paper-scissors.
I like fucking around with Alex too but I’m not sure I would throw him into A-tier. He’s strong as hell but is pretty clunky. Most of his moves, even his normals, leave him way open. If he doesn’t have an assist to back him up he can be in deep shit.
I don’t play Soki but it would seem he deserves A-tier status. He’s powerful as hell, has long ass combos, nice counter/defensive abilities and the best jab in the game.
Saki is definitely a high B tier character because her runaway is really good, command grab is amazing, Unblockable super set ups and her other amazing gun super which is really fast. The only problem with her she has not many combos since she is a keep away character but other than that she is super solid.
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Her runaway isn’t that great. Once you have an unblockable loaded it is threatening but you can’t do any of your bullet offense. Characters that dash under your grenades and wait to put you in an ambiguous mixup as you fall are a big problem. She also has a dead zone at a 45 degree angle from the ground that can only be defended with Hyper meter or a psychic C grenade. Very hard.
She has some really favorable matchups though (soki, t. blade, tekkaman, ryu, morrigan) basically anyone who has average or below movement and reach.
Characters waiting under saki without an extremely strong anti air ready are only going to get hit. J.b has hellish priority. Also, hitting those lvl1 supers as anti air is totally worth it.
well that is why you rush in sometimes with her, when I play her I don’t just keep away the whole time. I keep away half of the time unless it is a character that I can’t get in I will keep away mostly.
Saki’s other nickname is ‘Obstacle course’. Those ammo specials are a pain in the ass to get around to even reach her.
I don’t like to support tier lists, I do like to explain the character strengths about why they’re good. Again, sharing my experience against her as to why she’s a threat:
Zoning specialist
How the player uses her limits the opponent’s approach options (That sphere ammo is pain to get around, notably).
Paired w/assists, she has some nasty unblockable setups. If you get caught in any combo-string (blocked or not) with her super ammo equipped, you’re screwed.
She also has blockstring + normal combos to fend off attackers and reposition them further from her.
She wins in a fireball battle. It’s given, but yea.
It’s true she has a dead zone, but in most cases a good Saki user has built up enough meter to spend a lvl 1 Super to punish unprepared approaches from that angle. Either that, rely on assists, or switch out to your other character.
A good Saki player can throw out the gernades and shoot them to explode earlier than expected, adding more obstacles to get around.
I’d recommend talking to Kurasa and Tron, as they’re people who use her well.
My friends who play Saki suck as her when they do play her, but I think in the right hands she could be monstrous. Are there any great TvC players who have vids of her up or anything? I’ve never seen her during a tourney or anything.