ok, so I’m a bit confused on throws…mostly their priority over attacks
I know some super/specials beat throws…but my question concerns normals

Namely, I’ll be landing from a jump and the opponent will be within throw range so I’ll press the buttons for throw…but he’ll throw out a s.short or something instead of a throw, and the kick will connect

And sometimes I’ll be within throw range and throw out a short myself, but the opponent will try and throw me, and the kick does not come out - instead I get thrown

Just wondering if anyone knows the reasons for this and if they can explain why and in what situations what beats what

Thanks in advance

Good question. I’ll try to answer with some sort of answer. If anyone has the tech on it then correct it.

When it comes to normal vs throw. The thing you have to remember is that ALL the characters have different throw ranges. On a whiff, I think some characters have different recovery time as well…I think. Anyone can confirm that?

I am pretty sure all the characters throw in 1 frame or 2. I’m not sure if it some characters are different. Command throws have a startup time and longer range then normal.

When it comes to normals. Normals have a startup, hit, and recover. Example: 2+1+2. This is a 5 frame move.

The only reason why a normal would beat a throw is because the hit frame was before or on the same frame as the throw. Can someone confirm the same frame as the throw?

But thats pretty much the only reason why a normal would beat a throw. If the hit frame is BEFORE the actual throw frame. And ON the throw frame…right?

This is not a situation on something beating something unless its a command throw. I guess what it comes down to is that you were too slow. Thats all I can tell you.

In high level play, if you’re in throwing range, you throw or tech the throw because normals are not something to rely on when you’re in throwing range.

Corrections and/or clarifications are welcome.

That’s the same way I always looked at it. Throws are the fastest and therefore best option at point blank usually, but if they do a move and an active hit frame is already connecting before the throw hit frame (throws have only one hit frame, which is why there is no such thing as meaty throws), the throw attempt gets stuffed. Otherwise, the throw will win, unless the move is unthrowable like an srk.

All normal throws are 3 frames, so anything faster will beat it, like most jabs/shorts etc. so check frame data. I think the only person with 2 frame throw is Hugo with Gigas, but yeah check frame data.

what happen throws vs b.fierce of necro and gouki f.strong ??

yea the wiff part is right. Chung li’s wiff throw has better recovery time than kens. Sometimes you cant even see alex go for a throw and hell just move his hands. Twins have horrible recovery time on wiffed throws.

Say throws are 3 frames and jabs are 2. If one person did a throw at the same time the other person did a jab. The jab should win because the jab is faster than the throw. Now if one person did a throw while the other person waited 2 frames before throwing his jab the throw would win. 2 frames of wait + 2 frames for jab = 4 frames. 3 is less than 4 so throw wins. Im pretty sure priority is a factor too so it wouldnt work on every character. Im not sure if the game works like this. This is just how I think the game works.

sf is glitchy by the way sometimes it wont give it to you because something before that could of fucked up the numbers. I’ve seen chung li throw dudley out of corkscrew blow and dudley has invincibility frames on that. I think she got + frames on a block and went for a throw. Then dudley did a super immediately after block stun before the throw actually touched him. Im not sure what exactly happened but my neck snapped back when I saw it.

does anyone know how long the throw stays out their for? I swear ive seen people dash into a wiffed throw and still be thrown. The throw literally wiffed a frame or 2 before the opp was in his face.

That is all we ask here at the internet.

Who is Chung Li? And no, every character has an equally long throw whiff animation: 21 frames. All characters’ normal ground throws have 2 frames of startup, while most jabs and shorts in the game have 3 or more frames of startup. Off the top of my head, Chun-Li’s crouching Jab and Oro’s close standing light attacks each have 2 frames of startup, equal to a throw.

Also, if a throw’s active frame coincides with the FIRST hitting frame of a normal move, the throw will still win!

It’s not a glitch, chun simply grabs dudley during the start up frames of corkscrew. Just the other day, I grabbed Chun out of SA1 with Ken, one of the fastest supers in the game. Start up frames, active frames. Look at frame data, and everything makes sense.

wow thats weird. good to know though

are the startup times for kara throws always the same as well?

It is odd that all of the throws are exactly the same, I seem to have much better luck with some character’s throws than others.

The other day I was playing against the comp, and I just decided to go for a random super. So Dudley goes Rolling Thunder, flies up on Ryu and Ryu grabs him for the throw. I couldn’t believe that happened. It funny because I was so far away from Ryu at the time (beyond sweep range), that busting out a throw at that moment would be completely pointless.

Kara throws don’t have a single startup time. There’s a cancelable window built into normals that kara-anything takes advantage of. The startup time for a kara throw is just normal startup time of a throw + however many frames you were into the normal before you canceled it into a throw.

The window for most karacancels (ie. not Makoto’s standing Short) is 2 frames. Therefore, the startup time of a karathrow is 3-4 frames.

Ibuki c.jab is 2 frames

I know how kara throws work, I was just wondering if the window for cancelling is the same in all of them.

basically, throw > everything else on the ground.

Chun’s c.jab is also two frames. She has to utilize it more than Ibuki though since Chun doesn’t have a great reversal move.

the thing about throws are…as strong as they are. they are not the end all be all to 3s like most mid level players think they are. throws can be baited and all kinds of shit. I almost NEVER tech. adn u may be thinking, uh why not. its because id much rather do something anti throw to get actual damage, instead of a tech which leaves me at square one.

EXAMPLE:ok ken does c.short, throw on you. next time he knocks you down he does c.short wait a sec for the un combo, short short super. if u tried to tech throw u just got hit with super.

antother example:ken knocks you down in the corner, does whiff far jab, walk up throw. next time he does whiff jab, walk up but stop before throw range. sees u whiff throw trying to tech the throw that never came, xx jab dp, jab dp. now u just lost a shitload of life for trying to tech a throw.

then ken throws you a billion more times, and it becomes pretty dangerous not to get thrown.

one more example just to make sure u get it. dudley does xx mk duck into throw. next he does lk duck you try to tech the throw that never came, s.rh xx ex mgb. or instead of lk duck he could still use mk duck, but then do mk short swing blow, boom easy hit confirm into super just because u wanted to take a couple pixels less of damage.

in conclusion, take throws sometimes and dont mash on lp+lk so much because you will get fucked up.

the most infamous example of “when its better not teching throws”: playing vs chun li.

eat kara throw after kara throw if you have to. its the less risky alternative to trying to tech, only to eat a>sa2.