I’ve always played VF, especially recently. I know virtuafighter.com is where VF players are at.
But, what do people here on SRK think about VF4:Evo before and after evo2k3?
I thought it was alright, even though it could use a bigger U.S. scene. I picked this game up after hearing some stuff about it at Evo (and it was a cheap $20 
) and I must say, from the way Sega presents the game to me, it’s pretty damn complicated. Especially when you’re ADVISED to learn stuff like Frame Advantage/Disadvantage, Guarding Throw Escapes, Evading Throw Escapes, Evading GTE’s, Multiple Throw Escapes, Failed Evades, Forced Choice Tactics, Open and Closed foot positions, different categories of character weights, and etc. etc. etc. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind it’s complications, but sometimes I feel like memorizing all this shit is worthless when I just want to pick up the game and just play. But then I get my ass handed to me by the CPU cuz I didn’t master so-and-so tactic, even though it can look impressive when done in actual competition (though it’s Mastery Time:Reward ratio seems pretty small; I pull off an ETE, we’re still about equal in Frame Advantage even though I just avoided eating a potentially lethal throw). And even though each character has something like 20+ moves, I feel only about half of their arsenal or so are useful in a real battle between experienced players (call it the Tekken syndrome, I guess).
Oh, and I forgot. The controls are NOT very forgiving like other fighters. There’s like no leeway when it comes to the controls unlike Tekken. For example, when doing Akira’s Single Palm Combo (D, df+P, P), you can’t just do the first part of it correctly, then mash on P to get the second part to come out. You have to time the WHOLE thing correctly. Oh, and Akira’s Knee attack is a BITCH to get out constantly (for those of you that don’t know what I’m talking about, it’s stated as “Press K+G (release G after 1 frame)” WTF?), which makes my trying to complete his combos involving the Knee in the Tactics mode a pain in the ass. And some stuff requires VERY SPECIFIC timing such as Exact Recovery. Wolf gets you in a Giant Swing you forgot to Escape, and you could use Exact Recovery to cut down the damage some and Quick Rise. BUT, input ER a few frames early or late, you either eat full damage (which is something I can agree on), or you Quick Rise AND still eat full damage. WTF?
Overall, I thought it was a pretty good game (Quest Mode owns). I’m already getting the hang of VF4:Evo, but IMO the game’s depth might be a turn-off to some people that just want to pick up the game and play with their own style of play without bothering to learn a lot of tactical shit they might not have to use a lot depending on their competition. I just wished there is a good sized VF scene down here in SoCali… Maybe I’ll try to start one…
If you want to pick up and play the game, absolutely do NOT pick Akira.
Most of the stuff you can learn is similar to any fighting game, like frame advantage and forced choice tactics. You don’t really need to learn it, and the benefits to learning it overall aren’t gamebreaking, but that slight advantage can make the difference sometimes.
Dunno what you mean about how the controls are unforgiving unlike Tekken. Have you seen just frames in Tekken? And none of the characters are even close to as bad as Akira.
Too late; Akira is already my staple character :D. Though I’m in the process of learning Kage, Wolf, and Aoi…
Well, to go into context, I mean like which specific moves give you Frame Advantage/Disadvantage and which can flow into Forced Choice. For example, some moves are VERY deceiving on their frames; Lei-Fei is a GOOD example of this. He starts pressuring me, I block, I see a move he throws out that looks like it gives him a disadvantage, I move in for the kill, then boom. I get kicked in the head into some 40% beatdown combo. Looks like if I’m gonna survive good competition, I’m gonna damn well have to learn which moves give them a frame disadvantage for ALL characters, as well as which moves I should use in said advantage so they can’t interrupt with a d+P or whatever.
As for the other advanced stuff like GTEs and Multiple Throw Escapes, I think it’s really important for some characters to learn it (especially Akira). The problem is, some of the advanced stuff seems WAAAAAY too hard to pull off consistently (especially Multiple Throw Escapes, with at least a 3 TE command input within a very short amount of time) while in other games they’re a lot easier like in Tekken; if they go for a throw, you can just tap the punch button(s) to escape. But then, not that many people use throws in high-level Tekken unless it’s unavoidable.
As for controls, I mean that you can’t have many “excess” or “accidental” button inputs or else some of your moves get screwed up. For example, in Tekken, some specials and Ten-Strings (I don’t endorse the use of Ten-Strings in high-level play) have MAD leeway to them; you can do Baek/Hwoarang’s Hunting Hawk like this (uf+3~3~3~3, 4~4~4, 3; note:it’s exaggerated) and the whole move still comes out, or hell, even if you totally butchered one of King’s 10-Strings by doing it like 1,2,1,1,3~3~3~3~3,4,3,2~1+2~1+2~1+2 it will still come out while stuff like Akira’s DragonLance Combo requires EXACT timing and execution to even get the move off; your DLC ain’t gonna come out if you did it like (df+K+G~F, P, b,f,f+P+K) even though you technically had the right commands down.
And I don’t bother with Just Frames since they’re only in Tekken 4 (I think); I haven’t played Tekken 4 extensively (though I’ve played almost all of them except the first one). And yeah, none are as bad as Akira execution wise. Except maybe doing Kage’s TFT combos that require you to do the buffered Knee AFTER his Backhand Uppercut hits on Lightweights, but that’s a matter of exact execution…
yeah, it could use a bigger scene, which would make it more enjoyable. i switched from tekken series to this recently. its much deeper than the tekken engine, and can be just as fun. As you learn more, its gets more rewarding. 20 bucks for it is cool too.
the great sephiroth: you don’t have to memorize and can still pick up and play. most of those things you mentioned won’t be as prevalent and only in high level play, and unless you can find high comp, you won’t need it. those things you mentioned, like buffering the throw/guard/evade/ escapes , i THINK mainly those are used on wakeup and oki, specifically when you techroll and your opponent expects it and rushes in, so its only one part of the game to concentrate on. so simply, don’t get knocked down a lot, and dont get up the same way a lot 
and frame adv or disadv is important, but on the basic level, you hit a move, you get adv, if they block a “big” move, you’re at disadv, if they block a small poke, either a) you might still be at adv depending on the move, or b) you are at a very small disadv.
force choice tactics is just a complicated term for when one person is at a disadvantage position, or frame disadv, and the other person gets a free throw/attack mixup. again, like when opponent predicts techroll and rushes in, or when blocking a move gives the attacker frame adv. comparable also to when makoto hits her dash punch and gets karakasu/attack mixup (although in that case, you know she will attack with smoething).
i know you said you don’t mind the complications, but imo i think you’re making it seem more complicated than it has to be, to be played. i do agree about the accidental button presses though, and tekken having more leeway. i agree tekkens throws are easier break, only because its 1 button (rp~lp) or both buttons for double breaks, and the window is bigger.
Absolutely love this game so far. Seeing the matches with the final 8 at Evl inspired me to learn it, and I haven’t found it too hard yet (this is coming from someone who’s never played 3D fighters competitively before). That just might be because I use Wolf, though, as he definitely seems like one of the easier chars to learn; he’s got no stances, only one move on Akira’s level in difficulty of execution (the super giant swing), and a relatively simple gameplan. Plus, he has a convenient and damaging (40+ or 60+ points, depending on opponent’s foot position) anti-low P tool in the form of the reversal.
To help any fellow new players of this game, here are the three characters you’ll likely want to avoid while learning the engine:
-Akira (this shouldn’t require too much explanation; strategically he’s actually one of the simplest characters, but his required execution level will almost certainly be too much for beginners)
-Shun (almost the opposite here…probably the most complex character, strategically)
-Brad (he’s the only guy who requires you to keep track of foot position at ANY level of play, as the motions for his ducking sways change depending on whether he’s in open or closed stance)
My SaGa Frontier brotha Storming Flower: You’re somewhat right. Some of the training mode stuff you don’t really need to learn right away (triple throw escapes, for instance), but a lot of it should be mastered ASAP.
(Evading) Double throw escapes are probably the biggest one. You use them mainly when you have a move blocked that can only be punished via throws or whenever you’re going to evade(same is true for triple throw escapes as well). The former case should be obvious…I’ll give an example of the latter:
Wolf connects a counter-hit low P. This gives him a 4-frame advantage; thus, if he throws immediately afterward, you cannot crouch it (as throws are 8 frames, and it takes something like 4 or 5 frames to crouch; basically, in this situation, you are just barely unable to crouch the throw). The obvious solution to this is to attack, but if the Wolf player guesses that he can beat whatever you throw out with his knee, which will score a counter-hit for 70+ damage and okizeme options afterward. So if you guess that he’s going to use the knee, and evade…well, he can beat that with a throw.
BUT, if you evade and simultaneously use a double throw escape, you will beat all striking attacks and have a good chance at stopping the throw. There are still risks to using this tactic; Wolf and other characters who have inescapable catch throws can use them to beat the evade, and everyone else can wait for the failed evade and punish it with something quick. So while it isn’t totally safe to go with the evading double throw escape here (nothing is without some measure of risk in VF, get this into your heads ASAP), it is the best overall defensive option.
The reason I say that it’s so important to be able to at least double-TE consistently is that every character has at least two good TE inputs to worry about. Triple-TE is something that becomes important against a certain few characters who have 3 good TE inputs (Wolf most notably, but some others as well).
Before I go off to bed here, one more piece of advice:
Go to virtuafighter.com’s VF4 section and check out the Evo guide to punishing moves. It lists each character in alphabetical order, gives their best moves for punishing enemies at various degrees of frame disadvantage, and then lists which of that character’s moves are punishable and with what. Sounds confusing, but it becomes obvious when you look at it…a must-read.
Good luck,
Josh
ill eat you
Good lord, the knee of doom :lol:
It’s Ohsu Akira’s fault a lot of ppl are losing fingernails and hair 'cuz they’re all trying out Akira as thier first character. IMO, If someone want’s to pick up the game and do ok for a while, I’d recommend Jacky, Wolf and maybe Sarah (others i forgot). Afterwards, pick anybody you want to be your moneymaker- nobody sucks!
Don’t even think of trying other characters until you tested it on competition.