ya know, this game has been out for about 11 months, so needless to say, everything has been discovered and all possibilities have been exhausted.
- I don’t play Vega anymore, I play Honda, and what a moronic statement - yes wanting Vega to be competitive and not trash tier is selfish /rolleyes
- Do you form complex rational thought? The comment is directed at people who whine because they want the game to stay the same where they’re happy playing the top tier cast and getting easy wins against the bottom tier - if you paid any attention to the context of my post you’d see that I’m referring to people whining that they’d have to ‘relearn’ matchups against characters that can actually hold their own after a patch
Do you ever do anything but kissup like a little fanboy to the older members of this forum?
WTF are you talking about? When you balance the game you look at stuff like this, and look at Rufus and why he dominates whatever character he dominates and go from there.
It’s not rocket science - stop oversimplifying things by claiming they’ll be in some endless MMO patch-balance-loop because fighting games are not mmos.
I keep seeing this argument and it’s as stupid as ever - there are plenty of small tweaks that can be made to help adjust obvious imbalances that aren’t going to change.
HDR, isn’t more balanced than ST, it’s just different. make some tweaks, and dictator jumps from mid-tier to S-tier.
Akuma gets an invincible super with unintended inescapable setups.
anything that gets changed will have unforseen consequences. Maybe sagat doesn’t need to do as much damage, but it’s not like he dominates with 8-2 or 9-1 matchups
Like?
Well I post what I know about matchups to help myself and other members, instead of crying about shotos + Sagat and blaming my losses on tiers. I can also admit that there’s others that are more knowledgeable about something than I am.
Also, I don’t flame somebody for something minor like disagreeing with me, which I’d say is a plus.
No one is overpowered in this game. Some characters are an uphill struggle when you reach a certain level of play. Once you get past the unwashed hordes of people who have no idea what to do against Vega you will start having a hard time using him. Same goes for El Fuerte and his ambiguous wake up crap shoot.
It would be good to give some of the roster little buffs to make them more competetive, but I would be very much against taking away from the top tier characters.
Merkicus, I play one of the worst characters in the game. My easy win matchups are extremely few and far between. The difference between me and you though is that I win a lot. And the last thing I want is a frivolous patch. You have honestly failed to understand the point I was trying to make. Of all the posts you have contributed to srk.com, I would guess that over half of them have been flaming, bitching, and complaining, and virtually no useful information that can help your fellow player. A simple search shows this, I do not know why you feel that you have the understanding of the subject that you think you do but my advice to you if you intend to play street fighter in any serious way is to try to change your attitude. Guys like you have been coming and going for a long long time and they always leave unsatisfied in the end.
In a perfect world, incremental balance tweaks would be ideal and solve the game’s problems.
In practice however, this just never works out. One of my old favorite browser games, Duels.com, used to be an extremely fun game. They introduced new content making balance a little wider, but it was still a very fun game. Then players began demanding balance changes to fix what they perceived were imbalances. The developers caved and began making regular changes. Needless to say, the community that was around then, has only a few stragglers left today. The balance patches made classes useless overnight and made playing the same type of character impossible. Players had no continuity in playing and grew disinterested very quickly.
In a perfect world, yes, this idea would work, but having regular balance patches, whether from input by players (who are 99% in favor of their particular class/player and allow unintentional bias towards characters/classes to creep in) or by devs (who most of the time make illogical decisions and buffing already OP things in order to address minor concerns).
Simply put, regular balance patches would slowly disintegrate this somewhat thriving community. Just wait for the inevitable sequel. Trust me you’ll thank me later.
Notes: Obvious bug fixes should be addressed before a sequel is released though.
Armchair developers and designers are even worse than armchair athletes and coaches. :wasted:
What piss me off the most is when someone decide to log and post garbage such as:
Hey Capcom,wake the fuck up and fix your game :mad:
nerf sentinel,storm and cable and buff the low tiers and do X and Y.**It will take a week at most to balance MvC 2 so it’s not hard at all to do. **
1 more thing.
Of course there will be unforeseen consequences. That’s why you do multiple small patches. You mess up, you fix it next time. It takes time, and things may get a little worse here and there, but everything should get ironed out eventually, over a long period of time and testing.
To those who are comparing Street Fighter IV to any other game, stop it. I haven’t seen a single person compare two games of similar genres in this thread yet, but there have been a few pairing SF with Halo and WoW.
What the hell? There are so many different things between these games. How can you even compare them at all?
History proves this to be factually incorrect
Some people actually have experience in game development, and I’m one of them.
(sorry for the double post I thought the lower post was an edit)
This flat out isn’t true, because despite those consequences, most of the bad matchups have been made better and a lot of lame things were removed. (honda’s oichio throw loop for example)
You can’t say it’s that different because it’s not that different - it has a tighter balance with the worst characters becoming significantly better than their ST counterparts.
-Make Honda’s ultra startup fast enough so that you actually catch people jumping in mid air; right now they just land and block even if you’re right next to them and catch them mid crossup attempt
-Lower Sagat’s HP by 50 or increase his recovery on tiger knee and tiger shots by a few frames
-Make Honda’s EX Oichio actually worth using (it doesn’t come out any faster or have any special properties)
-Fix Vega’s overhead that isn’t an overhead
None of these changes are going to seriously upset anything, but they’ll make the game better.
I win a lot too, especially after switching to Honda. I win championships at least once or twice a day, which involves a lot of win streaks against a sea of Ryu’s and Sagats. It’s not fair to make a passive aggressive insult like “i win a lot, you don’t”.
Your post just came off like the typical “lol scrubs want balance, this game is fine noobs l2play” that is pervasive on these forums.
I have nothing against Dullyana but there is a LOT of rampant fanboyism on this site towards the older members which amounts to nothing more than a “high five! u got em good!”
A lot of the newer posters come here and make great points and arguments and just get flamed by older members.
Well Put Merk. Respect! /Ali G snap!
just ignore merkicus guys
he is one of the worst players and posters in existence
he just likes to argue bc hes not very good
Isn’t this a rock/paper/scissors strategy game?
I think a balanced character would go 6-4 against 1/3 of the cast, 5-5 against another 1/3 and then 4-6 against the last 1/3.
I think the perfect balance of street fighter IV would have the top tier character go 5-5 against everyone except Dan.
Then the rest of the characters go 4-6, 5-5, and 6-4 evenly, then Dan going 4-6 against everyone.
Clearly that goal is pretty much unachievable, but you can come close and I think SFIV has.
I haven’t played SFIV much at all but I’ve come from many different rock/paper/scissors games and SFIV seems to have a very healthy tournament environment.
It would be nice to see Sagat tweaked down just a tiny bit to leave Ryu on top, but really, he’s not all that great. If I had to guess I would say he’s not dominating because people are practicing the most against him (and he has enough even matchups of course).
It helps to have an average no weakness character on top. One with average health, speed, damage and strong stable moves. The rest of the characters can deviate from that and gain in some areas but become weak in others.
The lower tiered characters are having a chance because people don’t practice as much against them. Of course at a certain point it would just be gimmicks that would be easily countered…but if the character isn’t that much weaker, say even or slightly behind with most of the cast then she should be able to be playable as a surprise.
The goal I would think would be to avoid the game turning into having to pick the best character or the foil to the best character.
If there are a good variety of characters doing well in tournaments then there will be room for innovation and metagaming, which there seems to be.
Clearly a few characters are a little weak, but speaking about tournaments that doesn’t really matter b/c there are 25 characters in total.
The only character I don’t think really fits is Seth, not because he’s too powerful but because he is too much of a glass cannon. I think Akuma is the perfect glass cannon, Seth swings too far; win big or lose big. Though that’s just a matter of taste, some people like that in a fighting game. Just doesn’t seem to fit the flavour of SFIV to me.
I am a complete scrub at this game so keep that in mind. I’m mostly just speaking from my experience with other rock/paper/scissors games and what I’ve seen in tournament coverage and tier lists for this one.
One thing about HDR, though, that game has been being balanced for over 10 years now and it STILL has worse match-ups than SFIV. I don’t see how people are thinking a new patch is going to magically make all fights 5-5 or whatever. Yes, there are some weak characters that need some help, and yes it should be done, but only after that is PROVEN though multiple tournaments and such. A lot of people though Sakura and Gen were absolute crap before Evo but now some are changing their tune.
Put simply, fighting games are a different beast than mmos, rts and it some times takes years for people to fully master characters in this game, patching based on early tier lists or players “gut feelings” could ruin the game balance and at best only make it slightly better. Leave the balancing to the new version of the game.
the worst characters could use a buff (namely Claw). Sagat could arguably use a tiny nerf somewhere
To say the game would completely change from a few tiny tweaks, i think, is a little absurd. Most of the cast can be left alone
i am 10000% against the patching of fighting games in the style of pc games, for so many reasons.
firstly, there are the principles of the matter. as it has been said many times before in this thread, there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game. the only perfectly balanced fighting game is the one where every character is exactly the same. tiers will always exist, and if you nerf the top tier in any game, all that’s going to happen is that the tier below them will move up and become the next top tier, and then people will bitch about them, and it’s an endless cycle.
i also feel that the fact that fighting games don’t get patched are its own appeal. in this day and age when every other game is getting patched on a regular basis, it’s nice to have one genre where you know you can dig in and be prepared for the long haul, without outside sources disrupting the delicate balance of what you’re playing, for better or worse.
lastly is the issue i have with the people asking for the changes. i get the feeling that many of the people asking for balance patches are players that are newer to the fighting game community, and especially, sf4 may be the first game they’re playing above a casual level. the reality is that, unlike other games in the category of being patched, save for a few, fighting games tend to have longer lifespans than other games. even games that get phased out quickly by fighting game standards are played and dissected for longer. we play these games for the long haul, still adjusting and improving many years after a game comes out. it’s way too early to be making these kind of comments, so instead of waiting for a patch to come out to marginalize your skill and seemingly make this game easier to win in, keep practicing.
This needs to be a sticky.
This is not about join dates, tiers, characters, of any of that shit.
Seriously, sticky that shit and lets move on.