everyone wants a balanced game. SF4 IS pretty balanced, and messing with it now might make it worse not better since all the characters are still being figured out.
if the next tier list has sagat being in spot #8 are people still going to be asking for a nerf?
Yes, because many of them can’t handle basic fireball abuse well.
OMG! all match-ups SHOULD be 5-5. How did Capcom not think of that? It’s a really good thing you had this idea. I think we should do that from now on.
Honestly all these balance/ nerf suggestions are made up by match-up tier lists. Tier-lists don’t tell the whole picture, or else you would be seeing a ton of Sagats winning tournaments instead of Ryu/Rufus/Balrog.
Also, why don’t we ONLY see Sagat? People crazy or something? He’s the best char in the game!.. also that’d be the only way to really have balanced competition… nonstop tiger knee and low/high shootouts… love it.
I am no evo level pro at this game so wouldn’t know where to begin balancing… though Vegas “non” overhead and Guiles poor flash kick trading would be a good start.
However the concept of balancing is something I am familiar with being more of a pc nut. I cant understand why this forum is so against it.
If you have played a competitive pc game in the last 10 years I know for a fact its had balance changes as well as bug fixes. As PC gamers we adapt… we change… we bitch… and we continuing playing.
Games are no longer on snes carts, imbalance can and should be fixed when ever possible to stop things being worse or better than intended.
It is a fact that games can not possibly be tested fully, even with the whole staff testing during the “crunch” at the end of development. If it was possible for the lowest tiers to be given a small boost up to mid tier I for one can not see that as a negative. However due to the fact that fighting games are very deep in terms of mechanics its not as simple as in for example an fps where a gun isnt being played as there are 7 other better choices with better dmg/acc/clip size etc, so let’s boost its dmg/acc to make it fairer on its cost…or whatever.
I would agree that a balance patch’s with added content/DLC would be good for the game, and good for the community (would bring back players and keep the game fresh)
However everything should be carefully considered, however slight and not knee jerk “OMGZ SAGAT IS IMBA!!!11111”
TL;DL
I would like a patch.
I would like it with out fucking about with the top tiers.
Look, all you need to do is observe player trends. People are predictable - they gravitate towards power and highlight imbalances without explicitly illustrating them.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the real problems in the game and make slight tweaks - Sagat could lose a few frames of recovery, lose 50 health, and he’d still be king just less so.
It’s -not that hard- to do balance changes like this. It’s not WoW, we’re not introducing new abilities with new gear etc.
At this point you’re just digging up and throwing out arguments that aren’t really relevant to the discussion - you’re just trying to ‘win’ or ‘counter’ with whatever you can come up with.
You’ve tried to ignore the fact that HDR improved balance on ST by tightening the imbalances up. The same tiers exist but they’re just not as bad as they were in ST.
We’re talking about the initial introduction of a fighting game. Occasionally something new might be discovered but the arcade tier lists are pretty much set - people might argue over Honda being B or C but there’s not much of a REAL difference there.
There’s nothing that will be ‘discovered’ about Vega that will change the fact that he’s bottom tier - period.
That’s a fair point but lets be honest - they’re not going to patch it anyway. They’ll do their balance changes with something they can make money off of.
It’ll still have top tier and low tier but hopefully it’ll be even tighter than SF4 is - and SF4 is far from perfect.
The argument that SF4 is better balanced than earlier SF games doesn’t grant SF4 immunity from balance criticism.
it doesnt matter how many times you patch it, there will ALWAYS be a tier list and there will ALWAYS be over-used characters. lets face it, some characters are just plain better than others. and like most said, why take the time to master a character just for it to get “patched”.
people are already competing for money at this game, do you really think they want it to be all mixed up with patches?
the console version as only been out this past feburary, there is still time for the meta game to grow.
Boost the low tiers, keep the mid to high’s the same. one character will still be the best, one will still be the worst, but at least it wont be as bad.
The only thing that confuses me about these bitch fests is that the game / characters are made for fun. If you are whining that you’re losing then you’re not having fun - you most likely are competitive. So seek out a competitive advantage - pick high tier. That, or quit the game. Not every char is supposed to be #1 evo quality character. If you don’t care about winning, and only care about having fun, then stick with your main - because losing doesn’t matter as long as you enjoy what you’re doing.
Also, It’s not like learning a new character takes time. Each guy has 3 specials, super, ultra, 6 normals and 5-12 combos. Once you master the basics of the game picking up another character is easy - ask sanford kelly.
Take any other game for example. If an item / character / race / unit etc. is unfair. and you play to win. use that shit until it gets patched. once it’s patched, go back to what you wanted to play. or perhaps take a break. or quit. or get a gf etc.
what is wrong with you people? how much of a noob do you have to be to bitch about sf4’s balance. Stay the fuck away from ST and 3S, you might have a heart attack.
After years of maining gief in ST, it’s unbelievable to hear people complain about any charachter in sf4 having bad matchups.
The “i dont want to learn anything new im happy with my ryu/sagat” argument is really lame.
The kind of tweaks that would be good for this game won’t require anyone to relearn anything other than “oh I can’t jump in all fucking day long on Vega now like a bitch because his scarlet terror actually works as AA and has some invulnerability frames”
If you base your ability to win off lower tier characters sucking then that is your problem
I would say you would have to be a “noob” to not notice some balance issues.
Go on justify piece of mercury as a design decision… go on I fucking dare you…
Yes ST and 3S had balance problems too… you see anyone arguing that fact?
ST and 3S were not on internet ready consoles (well arguably the dreamcast), so is not really a comparison in the slightest.
can we just get a sticky “Balance Thread” and be done with these individual “this needs fixing” threads?
games quite fine, individual characters do need fixes obviously, and as stated before, i want full ultra bar + full super bar to do something…
I am glad that you guys have figured out the game completely already, and know exactly how every matchup goes in detail enough to be ready to ask for patches.
It takes 2 or 3 years for people to even begin to know what to patch…people are still finding things in third strike and it’s been out since before most of you guys had pubic hair. Patching a fighting game is pointless because everything is never discovered, and matchups are there to be studied and learned. The only way you’d have a case is if there was something that was clearly unbeatable like for example st akuma. SFIV has nothing like that, nothing even close to that. Even shitty old vega can beat any character in the game at any given day, and he even has some good matchups against upper mid tier characters. Sagat is the shittiest best character ever.
Sagat is so good, he needs to be patched, blah blah tournament results or it didn’t happen. Weaken those guys and now suddenly noone can beat rufus. So now you have to “tweak” rufus. Well now gief beats everyone for free, except seth and akuma, so now we have to tweak those 3 guys too. It is a house of cards and changing things accomplishes nothing, it only moves the problems around. There are examples of this very thing happening ad infinitum in regularly patched games back to the dawn of the internet.
All you guys that want patches I’d honestly love to hear what you’d like patched. Some specifics. I am pretty sure I can tell you why they are mostly bad ideas, and the few that wouldn’t really be that bad are still unnecessary. Honda ex headbutt through fireballs is a blatantly bad idea. Honda is climbing the tier list lately like a firecracker and now you want him to beat ryu and sagat for free. No thanks. I think ryu vs honda would be a 7-3 matchup if you gave honda that, I thought we were trying to avoid those? But if it’s 7-3 against ryu, it’s ok, isn’t it. Abel is an upper mid tier character and people are asking for balance patches cause they think he is shitty. Piece of mercury from vega is a classic, people want it to be an overhead for some reason, even though that wouldn’t alter vega’s position in the game one decimal point, and jump back fierce is already an overhead that is better than that. Why should it be an overhead, because he jumps in the air a little? Well then let’s make blanka’s ball an overhead too! What a well thought out and intelligent design decision from our resident experts, that would solve all kinds of problems if they just gave vega a shitty useless overhead. These are 3 examples from this very thread of why you’re just simply not qualified to make these kinds of decisions.
Also if you play only online or with your friends at the dorm, and I don’t mean this the wrong way because I really don’t have any inherent disrespect for any player, but if you do, know your place in the discussion. You do not know what needs to be balanced and you have no idea what the game is really like on a level where minute character advantages matter. Please do not act like you know all there is to know about it and that you’re ready for some changes now. If you are one of those people and you honestly want to improve and take the game to the next level where you are competing, then good luck, but this attitude is holding you back. If you are not interested in that, well, no offense but your opinion on this does not matter. You don’t know shit from a snowflake about what needs to be changed if anything.
This all boils down to the old tried and true “that’s cheap” mentality, same concept, but since people know better than to use that word on srk they have different terms for it now. It is no less scrubby of an attitude. You think that x character has too easy of a time with y character, or your inherent lack of skill or reaction time causes a certain tactic to be really effective against you, so you think you’re qualified to change the game for everyone else.
GL in dash guys, maybe they’ll buff your guy and we can see ryu and sagat players making threads about how they want a patch. Do you really think that would be better? Secretly I think most of you do, actually, this is all self serving. It is not about the integrity of the game, or else you’d understand my point, it is more about the fact that your personal favorite character doesn’t play the way you think he should and you want to own your friends easier, peppered with a healthy dose of the new srk member shoto hate. Fuck ryu, if I see one more ryu online I’ll vomit, etc etc ad nauseum. Stop playing strangers online and you can solve most of your problems. Theres a reason why you don’t see any major or even somewhat decent sized tournament placers asking for patches, its all random online players and casual mom’s house gamers. The very attitude that leads to that is a loser’s attitude and I hope that you can all understand that if not now, eventually.
I don’t know about these guys, but I said multiple times that I realize sf4 is better balanced than pretty much every other fighter.
I was just saying why not try to make it even better?
This thread is pretty much a straight up flame war now so I think I’m gonna duck out.
See signature.
I think we’ve told you why not, but you don’t seem to be taking counter arguments into account.
Most games get patched quickly. Imagine if Halo took 2-3 years to fix various problems.
Top tier characters DO need tweaks. As do low tiers. I think the rest are fine. Mid-tier characters all seem to be able to be pretty equal with each other.
I don’t want anything patched. I just want a full addon with some fixes 
You sir are CORRECT!!!
Ryu/Sagat have been overpowered way too long. I understand they are intregal to the story line, and that Ryu is Japans sacred warrior or what not, but seriously, I would rather see equality across the board than see Sagat and Ryu throwing out simple Ultra setups and 15-20 hit combos across the board.
It’d be great if the right people paid attention to Halconryu’s post. Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen, because the aforementioned people are classic, stubborn scrubs…