Honestly it just sounds like you’re frustrated at losing. HDs still retain plenty of risk with their reward. A failed HD or activation takes away your entire drive + meters. In SF if you have no meter you’re out your EX moves and super. In KOF you’re out drive cancels, EX moves, GCCDs, GCRs and supers. You lose MANY more options in KOF without meter than you do in SF. Another thing I think you fail to understand is the context of matches themselves, especially among competent players of roughly equal skill. They will NEED their EXs/GCCDs/GCRs to fight each other. It’s not extremely common to see two skilled entering the final round with enough meters to 100% each other. If you watch EVO GFs for example you’ll notice how they often enter those rounds with 1 or 2 meters. If they tag someone at 70%, sure, they can kill them, and a small handful of characters can 100% off 3, but like I said, it’s not common to be hoarding a ton of meter in the final rounds unless someone fucked up badly and let the opponent run wild.
At the end of the day, you got hit. There are many, many things you can do to prevent being hit and not take that combo damage. If you’re new to KOF then I can understand how HD is devastating and frustrating to you because defense isn’t the easiest thing for new players to the series. There are so many offensive options in KOF it will take you months if not years to understand them all. Fortunately for you there’s also as many defensive options. When you get better at both those things I have a feeling you’ll rage less, because you won’t be getting tagged by HDs as easily and you’ll be forcing your opponent to use his meter more so that if he does HD it won’t be nearly as powerful.
Joey Those are my feelings exactly! The game is fast and demanding and people are getting frustrated! With time people will get use to it and these problems won’t even be an issue!
I feel like anyone who compares Genei Jin to HD mode should probably be shot in the face. Genei Jin has much much more utility compared to HD mode. Please actually take some time to learn the games you play before you make dumb comments like this
You also lose whatever meters you choose to spend in the HD (EX moves, supers, etc). Not all HDs end with Super->Neomax. Some link supers back to back, some require EXes for certain juggles, etc. You can lose meter as well as your entire HD if you fuck up.
I probably should have used better grammar for that sentence, though.
Just want to add that at the end of the day, this is a bunch of crybabying over what at best can amount to a 33% combo to your team, a combo that you had to fuck up to get hit by.
Lesson of the day: fuck up less, game becomes more enjoyable.
In most cases, if you cant get in and finish the round early on Yun, you are going to have to contend with 2 GJ’s (maybe even 3) per round. Compare that to the 1-2 HD activations you might see playing a match of KoF. So basically from a sheer numbers standpoint, you’re likely to face double or even triple the GJ’s than you would HD combos.
Like someone mentioned previously, a 100% HD combo still only really amounts to 33%, since you how 2 more characters. On the conservative side (and I’m talking average GJ damage given all the different setups) you can pull 40%… Hit with 2 GJ combos in one round and its pretty much over. Now of course rounds in SF games play out a little differently so these damage/round comparisons are not perfectly translated to either game.
Of course, you have to take the mechanics of each game into account as well. Sure 3s has parrying, parrying GJ is the last thing you want to do against it (unless of course you red parry a shoulder if he tries to tc into it blah blah). In the case of 3s, the ways of getting out of GJ pressure are incredible risky (as is blocking bc you face the high/low/cmd grab mixup… all which lead into pain). Basically, you have to make a GREAT read to get out of GJ.
In KoF though, sure you can keep pressure on by hd cancels but HD’s lack the raw utility of GJ. With HD, you hit confirm, go into HD, and do 70-100%. Then your resource is gone for what likely amounts to the rest of the match (not always HD mode, but you typically wont have enough meter to kill). With GJ, you can hitconfirm into 50-60%, activate off blockstrings or knockdowns or even raw. Then, like I said, you get a low/overhead/cmd grab mixup that can do nearly half health depending on how early in GJ you hit them.
None of that works in KoF because of Guard Cancel rolls/blowbacks can just reset the situation if you are trying to use HD mode like GJ.
Sorry to get off topic but felt like that point needed to be addressed
TL;DR
Don’t make scrubby ass comments about games you really aren’t that well versed in (and that was not directed at you Shiki, btw)
I don’t have a problem losing to someone who outplayed me. I’m not amazing at the game but i can hold my own (and still consistently do an HD/Max combo when i need to.) But a 100% combo off one mistake is silly. Sure it takes ability to do it, but like I said before (and no one really answered) DOES THAT MAKE IT A GOOD MECHANIC?
I like how you and a few others seem to think that not liking a mechanic=I can’t win or I can’t do them. You can make assumptions about my playing ability based on my opinion here, and while I’m flattered that you thought that much about me, I don’t see where there’s really any room for that in a discussion about whether or not the game would be better without them.
That 33% is huge when it’s your second or third character (and chances are it will be.) And are you telling us here that you NEVER get mixed up and/or eat an HD/Max, EVER? Not even off of a c.B or anything like that?
Guys like you and Saitsu make me laugh. Like the big secret to being good at fighting games is just, “Don’t get hit” or “just don’t fuck up.” And to think of all the time I’ve wasted learning footsies and combos. :looney:
You know, KOF 98 seems more your speed, has plenty of people still playing it, you can get it for free AND it has a better netcode. So why aren’t you playing that over XIII? Seems like an easy trade for most of the people who truly dislike the mechanic.
If you get hit by an HD combo and die from it, you got outplayed. It doesn’t matter if it’s off one mistake. You still got outplayed. The game isn’t here to hold your hand and make sure you survive 5-10 mistakes to have another chance on round 5. You have 3 characters worth of chances and your opponent is not going to be able to 100% you on round 1 and usually not round 2 or 3 either. People have already told you ad nauseum how HD has both benefits and drawbacks. You’re free to not like the mechanic all you like but it’s still balanced. Every character in the game can 100% and if they want to use a ToD they have to not only hitconfirm it under the right circumstances but deprive themselves of critical tools in order to save the meter to do it.
No one is saying you can’t win or that you can’t do an HD combo, but your wins and skill are relative to your opponents. As you get better at the game, you’ll be forcing your opponent to use his meter more and you’ll find those OMG 4/5 meter ToDs diminishing in frequency.
I hate to break it to you but yeah, part of the secret of being good at fighting games is not fucking up/getting hit. Obviously it’s not as simple as that - you have to have the skill, knowledge and presence of mind to react to the hundreds of situations you’ll be in. There are so many setups and offensive techniques in KOF that you will be a victim of them for a long time before you truly understand how to anticipate and counter them. In the meantime you’ll be eating HDs left and right because, face it… you got outplayed.
Like someone else said, you should be playing KOF98. You’ll die in 2 combos but hey, there’s no HD mode.
Well, HD being good mechanic is subjective. Some people think that having HD helps balance the game because it gives strong options to pretty much all of the cast. Also, some people like having the ability to always comeback because the decided to manage their meter smartly. So to those people yes, it is a good mechanic. If they removed HD, I think the game would be better, but that’s my opinion. I could see how others wouldn’t like the game as much if it wasn’t in the game though.
So making one mistake=“You got outplayed.” Wow. And actually, you were the one who said I “Honestly it sounds like you’re frustrated from losing.” Thanks again for that.
IF there were something like Bursts that would expend one meter and take all your guard gauge too or something like that that would break the combo (but at great cost to the player using it), then HD/Max WOULD be balanced. “Balanced” means there’s a way (sometimes one with a great cost to it) to oppose a given mechanic. In Third Strike, parries can be overcome by things like 1f throws or quicker Supers. This is why parries are a balanced mechanic. Rock/Paper/Scissors is a “balanced” game because everything has something it beats and something it loses to. But there’s nothing that beats an HD/Max combo other than the player dropping it. And it’s not like meter is all that difficult to get in this game.
So I guess you guys missed the 3+ other posts in this very thread where I said that I really loved everything else about the game but just questioned whether HD combos really made it better or not. I guess I forgot that not liking one thing about something means you hate it altogether, sorry about that guys I’ll remember for next time, I promise! :looney:
I used to play 98. In fact 98 and 99 were the last KoF games I played before this one, and I played them quite a bit. God forbid I should get with the new and not love each and every little bit of it. Jesus.
I’m just saying. It’s more likely you’d like more things in 98. HD is a mechanic that has a massive influence on the entire game of XIII. If you dislike the mechanic, it most common sense cases, it means your like of the game isn’t as great as it could be. 98 which doesn’t have that problem, and actually puts a LOT more emphasis on the poking and neutral game, which you seem to like, would be through your eyes the better game. Normally the reason for playing the lesser game is either better netcode (or at least the ability to play it with other people) or everyone’s playing the new shit or whatever. 98 literally has none of those problems (thanks SNK for your time honored tradition of crappy netcode). So you honestly have no excuse for playing the lesser game unless GGPO doesn’t work for you.
You never really answered the question other than “Well, I like everything else about XIII”. HD is too big a mechanic to ignore (hence you making the thread in the first place), and if it ruins the game, why not go back to the better game? Because honestly, if you really dislike HD mode, then you shouldn’t like the game that much, and I’m not saying that because “Well, if you don’t like one part, you must hate the game”. I’m saying it because HD is a MASSIVE part of the game. It changes team dynamics, balance concepts and how the game is played completely. It’s not like saying you hate certain color palettes or voices or even certain characters. It’s like hating parrying yet liking 3S. Sure, maybe you might like it at lower levels where you’re less likely to see parries, but once it becomes more of a factor you can’t ignore it. I’m sorry, you literally can’t, so either your annoyance with HD is a lot less than you’re leading on, which is really unlikely at this point, or you haven’t played the game at a high enough level for people to annoy you even worse with HD combos every single game.
Let’s not pretend it’s “one mistake.” You need to make a lot of mistakes to lose a match in KOF. You keep saying how you feel HD means they didn’t actually “outplay” you. That’s silly. The fact of the matter is you did get outplayed. Any time you lose in KOF it’s because you got outplayed. Period. HDs are not an “I WIN” button, they take hitconfirms, execution and meter management to utilize. The counter to HD is called blocking. No, I’m not saying you should never get hit by a mixup, but that IS the counter. Nobody can HD you without first opening you up. If you get opened up it’s your fault, and that’s called being outplayed.
Wishing for some kind of combo breaker hand-holding mechanic isn’t going to change these facts, it only hints that you’re a weak player that can’t accept an honest loss. If you’re playing 98, all it takes is 2 mistakes to lose a round, starting at round 1. At least in XIII the damage is scaled back dramatically so that you can make many more mistakes than that before you get into the final rounds.
HD is balanced because it is counterable and has real consequences for not only its use but also its failure. The impression I get from your posts is that the game is too unforgiving for you. You seem need something other than your own reactions and skill to supplement your play and make sure you get more chances to win. You will not find that in any KOF game so maybe it’s time you move on to something else.
Alternatively you can put more time into understanding the game. You said you started in May and that you used to play 98. Honestly I’m skeptical you put much time into that either because it’s WAY more unforgiving than 13. If you’re an entry-level player like I suspect then your negative opinions are going to be amplified because you’ll be vulnerable to HDs for a long time. Defense in KOF can take years to master at a high level.
I guess I missed it while I was looking at your “THIS GAME IS RUINED” thread title. Hyperbole isn’t going to win you sympathy dude.
There’s a video on the 1 page of someone blocking an HD combo and dying due to guard break, so no, blocking isn’t the counter to HD.
[media=youtube]OVQcpZfw6vs[/media]
You’re not losing anything more than HD meter if you botch it. If it’s dropped midway you got a ton of damage anyway.
You don’t have to be a jedi to play any fighting game. Kind of tired of people trying to make it sound like whatever game they play requires some type of special talent only a few are blessed with.
All/Most of these complaints are typical of Custom Combo mechanics.
Telling someone they don’t really like the game if they’re criticizing it is pretty childish. As is the you don’t like because you can’t do them. The sensationalist thread title to get people in here isn’t helping either.
The topic would go a bit better if everyone just chilled and attempted to understand each other or try to see it from the other’s point of view.
Sometimes I sorta wonder what this game would be like with the Advanced/Extra system of 98, or even better the Advanced/Extra/Ultimate system of 98UM. That was the best…but I have no problem with HD combos.
