My bad, thought he was talking about honda, thought izuna drop=butt splash and I gave tips accordingly.
nah im talking about honda, i don’t need help vs vega. Sorry about that i meant brutal ass smash not izuna drop. Anyone know if cod 1 hit is safe on block vs honda without meter? Another problem might be that im just playing godlike hondas =/. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Dont think CoD is ever safe on block against anyone. (frame data: lp CoD -7 on block, mp/hp CoD -3)
e.g. Everyone can focus the 2nd hit after blocking the 1st and get a crumple.
Sorry for the delay guys. I’ve been swamped with shit the past couple days. Free all day tomorrow. I’ll get to everything.
Juice, thanks for giving some input on matches. I was gonna PM you anyway. I had an idea to PM some players and get some ideas of match-ups to throw in to this. So yeah. I’m gonna want your take on a couple more matches, specifically Ryu, Sagat, Chun… though it seems like you’re going in alphabetical order, so if you have time for all the matches… even better.
Yeah I plan to write all the matchups by Sunday or so, giving them in 4-packs. I’ll be sure to mark which matchups I don’t have the greatest experience on, so that you guys can add to them.
Vs Honda you can keep him out pretty well…cr. MK seems to be a really consistent anti-air vs that guy. So just wait and build meter…see if he makes a mistake.
I don’t know. Attacking Honda is always the foggy part of any vs. Honda match for me. No way of attacking him is completely safe. Just try to get a knockdown, then roll through him to make him lose the back charge, then cross him up in a way that will beat the sumo smash, then you can mix him up. That’s how I think it should be done, anyway.
Vs. Gief…that match is a fucking joke. I don’t think it’s very winnable at all. Basically if they are spamming the MP you can cr. roundhouse it from a certain distance, but that isn’t even safe.
Wheelkicks can be EX Green handed or Punch Lariat’d on reaction.
Cr. HP can work as an Anti-air on Gief and you can get a trade from it, but if he empty jumps your anti-air will whiff and he can ultra you. I think jumpback HP is the anti-air for this match
Basically the way Abel wins 3 out of the 10 matches in theory is by landing forward+MK, standing fierce-> rekka-> cr. HP -> ultra, and then a little random damage elsewhere. You can land the forwrd+MK if Gief whiffs something big or if he backdashes on his wakeup (which he will because your LP TT beats all his wakeup moves).
Yeah, I’m gonna do my own write-ups anyway. There are definitely some fights that I still kinda just wing though, so it’ll be good to get a couple of different perspectives on all of these.
I wrote up Boxer, trying not to repeat anything Juicebox said. I think Australian Boxers might be a bit different since everybody here is totally gay for hit counts instead of damage (wow AuScrubRyu89 you got 8 hits in before the DP into Ultra… thanks I guess), but the overall strat should be rougly the same.
Balrog (Boxer)
Spoiler
General Strategy
You should always be looking for a knockdown against Balrog. Once he is on the ground you basically have a free crossup. His only answer is to burn EX meter on a dash punch or headbutt which will only get him away, not hurt you. More often than not if he tries to headbutt your crossup, you’ll reset him and be close enough to jab TT. If you don’t reset him, you can dash and TT the recovery of the headbutt assuming you’re in range. In the event that your crossup is blocked, proceed with the usual mixup game.
Be wary when mixing things up that there is a 3 frame jab which will beat out your non-EX TT attempts if you don’t set them up properly. F+MK into TT is especially vulnerable to this. If you’re going to throw it’s advisable to be safe by using EX TT the first couple of times.See how they react to that and then use non-EX if you think you’ll do ok.This has the added advantage of training any Abel-Friendly boxers to try and throw when they expect you to EX TT. As with all charge characters, you can put on a pretty decent rushdown without being too scred of mashed reversals, but you do need to watch that jab. Any jab can be turned into an ultra once it’s available to him for no cost, so try to base most of your pressure around his incredibly weak wake-up game.
When on the defensive, look for patterns in their poke strings. Balrog’s strings usually end one of three ways;
A) A throw attempt
B) Overhead blow
C) Poke until you’re out of range
The throw can come out very quickly after a blocked jab. When you find yourself caught in a block string, you should always be preparing to tech or TT the throw. The overhead blow is very slow to come out, and you can EX TT on reaction when you see it coming. If you have no meter, you can either LK roll to set up a punish or risk a regular TT, but be wary that the overhead can set up a headbutt and ultimately and ultra/super.
What They’re Thinking
From the Boxer matchup thread;
It’s inevitable that you will face a turtling Boxer sooner or later. Boxer’s cr.HK is longer than all of your pokes and damn fast, so if they do decide to sit on a lead or turtle up, you’re going to have a very hard time starting an offense. Get to cr.HK range and prepare to either focus, EX COD or F+MK your way into an offense. Do not jump in. Cr.HP will beat out every single jump-in option you have. Light Wheek Kick should be the only one you’re going for since EX headbutt on reaction will beat any wheel kick and leave you open to an ultra/super. Using it is basically making the assumption that your opponent can’t react fast enough to punish it. It’s worth throwing out very occasionally just to remind them not to block low all the time.
Notable Moves
Tornado Throw - EX TT will grab dash punches on reaction (The exception is max range jab dash punch). Non-EX TT can be used on overhead smashes and swing blows since they spend alot of time dashing before they go into active frames.
EX CoD - A decent alternative to EX TT as an answer to punches and jump-ins if you aren’t comfortable with the EX TT timing.
Ultra Setups
Any special except headbutt can be beaten by ultra on reaction
A blocked headbutt can be punished with Cr.HP into Ultra
A “What they’re Thinking” section would be awesome too.
From my experience against boxers… against a charging/turtling boxer, when both of you’re at the end of the screen, walk forward a little bit and dash into a TT since some boxers ive fought, once they see me dashing in they’ll do a dash punch and eat my TT…
of course dont overdo it. and of course this wont work against everyone. call it baiting a dash punch into TT instead of on reaction.
C.VIPER (5-5)
C.Viper arguably has the most effective rushdown in the game, but by spacing yourself correctly and watching out for Seismos, you can win this match through patience. She has 900 health, so your attacks hurt a bit more than hers do.
Tidbits:
- You are never really safe anywhere on the screen. Prepare to block at a moment’s notice.
- LP and MP Thunder Knuckle are safe. Unless she pushes herself far away, watch out for the mixup. Backdashing works well after blocking a TK.
- Almost any air normal will beat flame kicks. She has to do her kick very early to beat air normals.
- If you block a seismo, watch out for the dreaded double seismo.
- Don’t jump at her if she has ultra.
- Examples of her throw mixups: (remember that there are obviously more)
A. Forward throw
-super jump towards, flame kick
-super jump towards, flame kick crossup
-super jump towards, j.HK/j.LK xx optional flame kick
B. Back throw
-j.HK crossup
-j.HK
-j.LK, land, throw
-j.LK xx flame kick
CAMMY (5-5)
This dainty British agent can be a handful. Her most powerful mixup involves instant Cannon Strike which costs meter. With a strong defense you will eventually deal more damage than her. Down/back is your friend in this match.
Tidbits:
- Spiral Arrow is unsafe unless spaced PERFECTLY. Punish with a FP TT or MP if she’s too far for HP. Go to training mode, pick Cammy, and learn the spacing for safe Arrows, then you wont fall for them anymore.
- If you block a Cannon Spike, punish with dash-up TT. You should be close enough for the MP version. Of course, ultra works, too.
- She cannot hooligan throw you if you are crouching. If you see one coming, block low and she’ll probably attempt a throw when she lands. Stuff it with a FP TT or a well-timed cr.HP. (she could mixup with cannon spike, obviously)
- When she’s in your face, block low. She’s going to try hitting you with an instant cannon strike, which is not an overhead. Continue blocking low until she wastes her meter for you. Smarter Cammys will begin to throw you, to get you to stop blocking low. Backdash when she’s at point blank to avoid both mixups.
- Cannon strike cannot cross you up, so if she does one right on top of your head hold the appropriate direction to block or EX roll away.
CHUN LI (4-6)
This match is a test of your ability to get in on a patient opponent. Her pokes are phenomenal and will make you want to jump very badly. Walk towards her until you get to the range of her st.HP, and try to work your way in from there.
Tidbits:
- She has no invincible reversal without meter (EX bird kick). If you get a knockdown and she’s meterless, rush that shit down. Close HK will work a lot.
- If you’re very fast, you can ultra through her fireball. The range differs based on what strength she uses, so don’t attempt it unless you’re at 3/4 of a screen away or closer.
- She has a 3-frame jab. If she likes jabbing you out of your strings, use TT a lot and cross her up repeatedly, like so: F+MK, cr.LPx3, j.MK.
-If you predict an EX bird kick on her wakeup, you can neutral jump it then use HK on the way down. You get an air reset, and a good option afterwards is a meaty F+MK. - Her jump is very floaty, so if she jumps toward you use cr.HP as anti-air, you have all the time in the world to set it up. Follow it up with ultra, dash falling sky, or dash super.
- You should be able to block Hazanshu on reaction.
- Abel has an infinite against Chun Li. F+MK, st.LP, cr.LP, st.LP, st.LP, f+MK. [media=youtube]-U-PMvvFq38[/media]
- Use the infinite to piss your opponent off and run time off the clock.
DAN (5-5)
The Saikyo-ryu master is not a pushover, by any means. Dan can mash shoryu with the best of them and his LK Dankyaku is even better against Abel than Sagat’s tiger knee, as it’s completely safe. Approach him like Ryu, being cautious about jumps and being offensive for too long.
Tidbits:
- His most reliable offense is throws, so be careful at close range.
- A life lead is very useful in this match, as Dan’s offense is very unspectacular. Get one, then turtle and whittle his life away.
- His st.MK is very annoying, as it’s very effective at keeping you out. If he uses it too much, counterpoke it with F+MK and mix him up.
- You can Focus his Ultra. Charge it to LV2, release, and combo.
- Watch out for Super Taunt, it’s automatically wins the round unless you taunt with him.
I didn’t want to write too much there. I just thought it was important to point out how bad a turtling Boxer can be. The Boxer thread’s Abel section is actually pretty detailed. If people really want to know specifics they can go look it up.
When I play Boxers, if I know he is dash punch happy, I try to predict them and do focus dash>TT,.
If you focus> dash boxers low dash punch, you have time to do a cr.fp for the launch.
This is good when boxers thinks you are trying to bait a dash punch so you can pull off an ultra.
He goes low, knowing it beats your ultra.
Random stuff:
Boxer:
Standing MP stuffs a lot of his options, and will whiff punish a lot of his normals. It will make him want to throw out a sweep which is focus bait or a chance to try a jump in.
If you block a close turn punch you can reversal tt. Its distance dependent.
Akuma:
Predictive c.mk xx rekka is one of the best ways to stop his standing hk. Can be used if your op is getting lazy and abusing them. If you whiff it you will get punished tho.
Chun-li:
s.lk can stuff a lot of her pokes but don’t go crazy with it because if you miss time it or trade with her standing fierce she just made up the difference you got from winning the exchanges before. It can make her hesitate tho.
Do no focus in this match unless she has you in a block string and you guess she is going to hazanshu (overhead). Even then the risk/reward is not in your favor.
If you knock her down, good chun-li’s will not use ex bird immediately on wakeup they will wait for you to neutral jump to bait it and get you on the way down. This opens up other options though, like meaty c.lk into fierce tt.
Chun likes to backdash ALOT, its one of the best in the game, close standing roundhouse will catch her backdashing and do an air reset.
If you find chun is throwing fireballs and walking forward you have a few options. Focus it, dash forward and ex-tt will catch them trying to poke you. Or ex wheel kick will catch them, if they do not expect it. If you wheel kick you want to space it properly to avoid punishment on block. You can sometimes bait them into walking forward by focusing a fireball or two, they will often follow the next one they throw so they can catch your focus with stand fierce or catch the backdash with stand roundhouse.
Lol yes
Not anymore.
2nd post updated. Let me know what you guys think so far. This is far from over, BTW. Even for the characters that already have info. This is just a start.
I personally like where this is going. Everything seems pretty organized and it’s good that the information is being hand picked rather than just thrown around. Props HAV, keep up the good work.
Well, previous thread’s kinda similar to this, shits supposed to be handpicked too but the OP went AWOL lol proly switched his main. Concept is similar, the most important thing is for the OP to keep it up instead of abandoning the thread. So far so good with this thread. thumbs up
The spoiler tags are awesome! Way less clutter to go through, and straight to the point on a specific character. Niiiiiiiicccceeee!!!
For Zangief,
Can Abel’s TT stuff Zangief’s Super/Ultra after its animation begins? I was able to stuff his Super/Ultra by doing TT right before it starts, but not after. I know it has a 1 frame (or 1+0 whatever +0 means) startup.