I am curious, who is this player you’re talking about?
You aren’t thinking in terms of what the game rewards/doesn’t reward. Most character from random throws can covert into decent -> very good damage. Spiderman on the other hand gets lol throw damage and a slight positioning advantage unless you want to roll the dice and call a meaty assist. It makes no sense to say that in a game like Marvel 3 a throw where you can get a positioning advantage is decent when being compared to throws that can be converted into full combo’s.
That’s only ground throws. With optimal teams you can do some really good damage with his air throws. I just try to stay off the ground as often as possible relying on air movement and hit confirms off stray hits. His plink dash is pretty good, but his ground normals are bad-mediocre. Nothing really stands out for his ground normals.
@STANG like xero said though, he has a lot more options on the ground than in the air. His cr.:l: isn’t that bad and his cr.:h: does have a good amount of range. Spider-sting is an incredible anti-air and you have the option to go for webthrows, which lead to full combos if they hit. You can also do UWT, but that is more of risk and I don’t usually go for it (maybe I should though).
Everyone’s damage is laughable when throws come into play. The differences from there are hit stun properties, special properties on moves, and team mechanics (not TACs), and level threes. Again, I see no reason to write something off if it does nothing but help the character. We know his air throw is better simply because he can pick up off of it, which is cool but what about the times the opponent isn’t jumping? People limit themselves too much to their own options. The only reason I can actually vouch for this is because I’ve done this to players who I know for a fact would know watch for it if it were a character who could pick up on their own. The reward is more than just trying to throw them and get positioning which as I said is weak in comparison due to the tech mechanics vs Spidey’s speed. Even with assist he’d have to commit one way or another, making it a read no different from the rest.
You can write it off because while everyone else in the game is killing off ground throws spiderman is getting a “possible” mixup or some other mysterious thing you are trying to get at. Stop isolating spiderman as some type of singular character when you should be comparing his options to the rest of the cast. If everyone in the cast can combo from a ground throw and potentially kill then why would it be logical to say the only one who can’t has a decent ground throw too? This character already has trouble opening people up so throwing away your limited chances for a ground throw in most situations is just a waste of pressure/opportunity.
That just sounds stupid. You’re literally taking away an option because its not the same as someone else’s. You can compare all you want but Spidey isn’t those characters. The point is to make him better not worse. Any option that allows damage where once lost is always an added bonus I don’t get how you don’t see that.
@Brightside6382 I’m still trying to understand how your able to deconstruct everyone’s comments that aren’t in agreement with yours. When watching your latest performance at UFGT9 I didn’t see any of the so called strats you posted up here on the forums being applied. Plus I can’t understand that if you dislike the chrc Spidey so much, why the hell do you still play with him? I’d say Dormammu & Doom have gotten you through the cracks, plus the fact that alot of ppl still don’t know how to fight Spidey cuz he’s not the average chrc you see in tournaments.
Because this game isn’t about getting damage its about converting EVERY hit into a kill. This isn’t SF4 where chipping away at someones health is a viable strategy (unless you are Morrigan) when certain characters get hit they have to die 100% of the time. If you are playing against a decent Zero, Morrigan, or Vergil and you waste your offensive opportunities going for ground throws -> nothing then you are just giving the person more opportunities to escape and lose the round.
@kookymanus2099
Ill admit my Dorm/Doom does most of the work for me now but that’s another issue entirely. Spiderman is not a competitively viable character anymore and I realized that a couple of months ago it’s just I didn’t have enough time to get 100% comfortable with a new team before UFGT. I can deconstruct people’s comments because I’m the only spiderman player who can make it out of pools at any decent size tourney lol. Also more importantly we are having a discussion about this character that actually has a little depth besides the usual combo circle jerk and the occasional “yo Xero make another combo vid of shit I don’t want to figure out on my own”. I didn’t know character discussion wasn’t allowed in the character specific forum or maybe you just enjoy the pointless combo discussions and like to avoid actual content.
Only tourney *streamed *player in the US to get out of pools. You’re too full of yourself, if you think the character revolves around your own results. Everyone decent enough here knows about Spidey’s limitations and the why he doesn’t break the upper echelon of tiers so there’s no need to patronize.
Your results are more attributed to your strong Dorm play if anything, and solid understanding of the neutral game. Your teams never had strong support for Spidey and though you have a similar “hate” for your point as, say Danke with Iron Man, unibeam is one of the strongest assists for Spencer. Spidey, on the other hand just limits your team bar some matchup inexperience on your opponent’s part. You may get a bit further with your new team compared to a limited point Spidey team with weak neutral support but I think you’re better off with a more solid non-derp team with Dorm.
That may be true to some extent but Dieminion and Kusoru’s team (V.Joe) were still able to level the field by chip and limiting neutral options. Though Morrigan (+missiles) has the tools to invalidate most of the cast, I have never seen anyone other than ChrisG to be severely oppressive so it has probably more to do with him and his game fundamentals.
:lol: I had to laugh at that one about the combo request.
Anyways, not every character kills off throws. Most the time more people have to reset from throws in general. The few exceptions are when people already have bar for level threes and the character has already taken hits or have special properties like soft/hard knockdowns that they can loop into (I.e. Zero). Although I don’t like using it in argument TACs are still there for such situations to get extra damage out when you normally couldn’t. Yes I understand those aren’t guaranteed but people still use it when throws come up. It’s not impractical in the slightest, especially in a game where most things impractical become the norm eventually, it’s just people rather compare it to someone else’s when that character has nothing to do with it.
@Raoh thanks I know I’m godlike no need to remind me. Also Danke is my boi he loses me money all the time in side bets.
Yeah most can’t kill off normal circumstances but they still get the ability to go into TAC’s or burning x-factor/meter to get the kill. Still that option is crucial since it allows you to get rid of problematic characters the first chance you get. I don’t get why you wouldn’t use TAC’s in the argument considering this game is evolving in the direction where TAC infinites are fairly common in tournament play.
I don’t like using it in arguments because we all know about the infinites the double TAC setups and X-factor. Adding those options in there I’m not seeing why you don’t think Spidey can’t kill off a ground throw. Taking into account most Spidey combinations a level three is usually available by simply raw tagging in after Spideys combo into level three.
Spidey can’t even *normally *combo off a ground throw, unless I’m missing something. If he can’t, then this argument is moot.
Are you referring to meaty assist calls -> throw? I already stated my dissatisfaction with those types of conversions considering the risk/reward is terrible for spiderman. If there is another way he can convert off a ground throw then let me know because that would make his ground throw not complete ass.
No I was referring to using the assist. Its not any riskier than when using assist for cover when establishing your offense. It’s the same principal that was in MvC2.
I’m going to be honest, it is a bit weird for me to confirm off a ground throw with beam assists and shit like that, but wouldn’t it be a bit easier to confirm with missiles once you get used to it? Some of Spidey’s best teams have missiles as an assist so its not like only a few people would be able to take advantage of it.
Some easy confirms off assisted ground grabs are from delayed assist hits from Strider, Doom, Modok, etc. Spidey can’t really protect those calls and are better used as combo extenders. You risk giving away two characters if you get HBDed unlike in MvC2 where you only lose one, iirc.
Well, looks like there’s something new to be tampered with Spidey. Yesterday in a player match against Desklamptv there was something that happened in during the matches. I had Sentinel & Desk did a webthrow which threw me into the corner & then did another one that took me outta the corner to throw me midscreen which we all do that. But before Sentinel’s body went flying midscreen, as soon as Spidey released him Desk jump up in the air & performed a.mp, a.mp, a.fp. I asked him WTF just happened. Desk please elaborate what you did for everyone so we can get to the bottom of this new tech.
Alright, I’m pretty sure this only works on sentinel because he has such a large body. All I did after I web threw Sentinel was I did a ground dash then I jumped up in the air and did j.
. First time I found it I was in a really laggy match and I tried dashing, jumping, and airdashing after a web throw to get the pick up but I got j. instead and it hit sentinel, so thank you online lol. I haven’t played around with it in training mode yet, so we will see just how useful this might be and if it works on other big bodies. Maybe I should have posted this in the combo thread though.
@Raoh I guess you have a point that it is harder to protect those assists, but HM may be a bit easier because you can call it before you zip over their head in the air so that their back is facing Doom, which means that they can’t punish Doom very easily. It might not be that easy getting the ground throw after that though because people generally want to move when missiles are called.