I would say that Dudley’s major disadvantage to Ken that puts him at a lower tier is the speed and the whole “footsies” aspect. It’s nowhere near Ken’s game, or any shoto for that matter. His main game is in mid and high ranges. I think his only effective footsies game would only be in his cr.Short (not bad priority) besides the widely used cr.Roundhouse and cr.Forward (which aren’t really footsies I guess). Although I think it would be safer to put Dudley and Ryu in the same class/tier whatever.
dudley is above ryu b/c he has a 3 stock super…random damage on more than half the cast…the most offensive jump and can cancel offf soooooo much stuff…plus he has the best wayw to murk you on wake up dart shot, lk lk super, ssb, game over…plus his overhead on crouching opponent…even if it whiffs you get a free mix up…not that ryu isn’t a beast…but come on man…ryu is strong but dudley is the 5th best in the game…yes better than urien…imo
Link, cancel whatever, I didn’t know you could shippu off of a crouching jab with Ken. In fact, I’m pretty sure you can’t, guys.
I’ll tell you exactly why Dudley is lower than Ken and Son of a Glitch is right on it: Footsies. Ken can be played extremely safe with his ground game only. You never have to take any big risks w/ Ken unless you want to. Dudley has more mixups and bigger damage combos, but his ground game is not as good as Ken’s.
And SDouble is right, Dudley is better than Ryu and Urien easily.
actually yes, test it on Ryu and you can c.jab, c.jab xx SA3, don’t know if it links but it cancel just fine
-edit- you can even c.jab(x2) c.short xx SA3
-edit 2- still testing this and found that Ken can actually s.jab(x2) XX SA3
I’m testing all this in the xbox version of 3rd Strike so I don’t know if it can be done in the arcade version.
I agree 100% on the advantages that Ryu has over Dudley as SDouble had stated. I was referring to the speed and strength comparisons of the two because Ken was much faster but considerably weaker than Dudley. Gameplay is a totally different story between Dudley and Ryu. Bottom line is despite the advantage Ryu has, Dudley is better overall. To me, unless you have a pretty skilled game with Ken in which you are able to use his moves to your advantage and exploit weaknesses and disadvantages of the other characters, Shotos are pretty much a free game.
Just for the sake of the thread, here’s my list. Don’t take it too seriously, I’m not very good at Tier assembly lists:
Top Tier
Yun
Chun Li
Ken
Mid Tier
Makoto
Dudley
Urien
Yang
Akuma
Low Tier
Oro
Necro
Ryu
Alex
Ibuki
Hugo
Bottom Tier
Q
Elena
12
Remy
Sub-Standard
Sean
- Even though it’s a universally unanimous opinion, he’s not THAT bad. I suppose It IS possible to be somewhat decent with Sean.
Reply with any agreements/disagreements regarding this list…
everyone here seems to have a pretty good grasp on makoto, but nobody can put it in words…somebody said that karakusa is a bonus, that’s wrong. without it, i put her in the lowest tier, since, she cannot poke.
why does ken beat her, he does just as much damage, but can poke chun. and tiers are based on tourney results, not whatever you said. ease of play and match-ups are the same thing essentially, infact, ease of play revolves around match-ups…anyways,
ken>mak, for move-around-ability. at my arcade, it goes
yun&chun(tied)Ken, makoto, random mid tiers…urien and duds.
it’s totally possible.
Ken’s c. jab cancels into itself, all his specials (but only combos into his Shoryuken) and all his supers.
it’s a bonus when using SA1 since using Karakusa isn’t as big a requirement when equipped with that super unlike having SA2.
she has pretty good priority on the ground with c. forward and c. strong and she’s pretty damn strong in the air as well with her j. forward and j. roundhouse.
:rock:
i don’t care if she has the best priority, she can’t poke, and without the grab, she dies. that grab is the only thing that scares me, otherwise, i smoke that ass.
That’s nice. Now replace “she” with “Yun”, and “grab” with “Genei Jin.” What’s your point?
It’s completely possible for Makoto to win without her grab. The only difference would be her learning curve.
maybe because the grab makes her scary upclose? You can’t just block, because one grab and she unloads her meter all over your face. Because of this, people get jumpy and risky, and this opens them up even more. Without it, she wouldn’t be nearly as scary.
Yes? No? I have no idea.
LOL… w/o the grab Makoto would be mid or low mid. You can just blk all day against her. It’s going to be much harder to confirm into SA1, and no one would pick SA2.
too strong…the fact is she DOES have it…that in turn makes her pokes effective…jump away from karakusa and you get reset and grabbed…block you get grabbed attempt to attack…you get grabbe…akuma can only throw against her…it’s too risky to get parried…
Its because of Makoto’s grab that makes her other moves much more effective, conversely, her other moves will make her grab more effective, gotta look at the bigger picture guys.
If Makoto didn’t have the Karakusa, she would be mid tier.
Like it or not, this is one point exactly. Makoto’s “grab” is a major part of her offense and she would be seriously set back if it didn’t exist. Sure, I suppose you CAN get through a few matches without it, but the farthest you’d ever make it would be against some random low-level scrubs. In high-level play against a talented player, you definitely need this move. In all fairness, you might be able to hit SAI off a cr.Short, cr.Strong, st.Fierce etc. although I believe these moves are not hit-confirmable, so you’d be risking it anyways. But forget anyone choosing SAII. It would be pointless. Look at the already existing conditions needed to land this Super Art. The command grab must be used at least to put any stun on the opponent with SAII. Bottom line, if the grab wasn’t there, tier-wise, Makoto would be beneath Hugo…
Hugo would absolutely destroy Makoto without the grab since he can block and 360 like half her moves.
c. lk x lp. hayate link SA1
s. mp link SA1
c. mp link SA1
c. mk link SA1
s. fp xx SA1
s. fk link SA1
oroshi xx SA1
All are pretty much hitconfirmable; some more than others. Still, I agree that the karakusa is very important to her game… it’d still be strong without it, imo. Her pokes have good priority, and she deals pretty good damage anyways. She might not stun as much, but she can still mix up her attacks with her standard grab.
Yeah, maybe I was a little harsh in the whole tier placement (lower than Hugo)thing because given the above statement by Yuk_Fai, she still has a little bit to fall back if the Karakusa had not existed. But I still feel that she her overall game would greatly suffer.