If you’re referring to Alex’s EX elbow slash, it has a 10 frame startup. The average person’s reaction time is approximately .20 to .25 seconds or 12 to 15 frames. Many sf players have a reaction time of .17 or faster, which is good enough to parry a move just below 10 frames on reaction
Best tier list in the world.
when i said parry the random ex elbow, i meant from about 1/2 screen or more, you have to account the time it takes to travel. the 10 frame startup is POINT BLANK. so uu really get even more time than that to parry it.
The Real Tier List:
Top:
Yun
Chun
Ken
Makoto
High-Mid:
Dudley
Yang
Akuma
Urien
Low-Mid:
Ryu
Ibuki
Oro
Necro
Alex
Low:
Hugo
Q
12
Remy
Elena
Shit:
Sean
The top rankings are like sure as shit on, High-Mid it’s like all those characters are on the same level, japan has a lot of beasting Urien, Akuma, Dudley, Yangs. Low-Mid/Low orders can be debated. Lots of good Ryu’s, Ibuki’s and Oro’s, Necro and Alex not so much, always exceptions to the rule. Low, there are people that are beasts with them, but lets face it, they are fucking hard to play. Elena is at the bottom because no one uses her and Sean can eat a dick.
I’m so bored I actually made a tier list, god help me.
EDIT: hahaha wtf, i just looked at the date for anur-x’s post and it was up like 2-3 years who the fuck resurfaced that shit
Yun
Chun li
Ken
Makoto
Dudley
Urien
Yang
Gouki
Oro
Ryu
Necro
Ibuki
Alex
Elena
Hugo
Remy
Q
Twelve
Sean
I would venture to guess that this whole thread is a basis for something to talk about and not something to rely upon much like a holy bible…still it is informative, but the degree of seriousness put forth may well be exaggerated…but then again that’s just my opinion
I think Alex isn’t completely disadvantaged against Dudley (personally, I think it’s 5/5 or maybe 4.5/5.5, in Dudley’s favor) because his great anti-airs really shut down Dudley’s normally awesome jump-ins and make it hard for him to put pressure. When Dudley jumps, Alex just has so many anti-air options?any of which will stop Dudley. There’s f+hp, which will reach Dudley even at the apex of his low jump, mp cancelled into something (if parried, EX Flash and EX Air Knee Smash both work really well), or b+hp/Powerbomb if Dudley’s expecting to parry, leaving Duds with only Ducking as a good way to get in. Of course, Dudley’s hitbox is so wide that even Ducking can be stuffed with a good amount of normals.
The thing is, however, that once Dudley gets his momentum going, there’s just almost nothing for Alex (and most other characters) to do but lose.
makoto isnt top tier cuz the twins can dive kick her for free all day
Does anyone have the link to the match up chart which shows each characters match up in the scale from 1-10 ? I feel it would be useful for this discussion.
Alex is not too bad. He has a decent match up against shotots…
Makoto is annoying but shes random so you can out guess your opponent and survive somehow. People make it sound like all his match-ups are throw away like him vs chun li.
If an Alex player dashes up to mid screen or something and EX Elbows, you will not parry it on reaction. Why? Because you would never expect the elbow after a dash, but reallly good Alex players can charge partition it. I don’t know the frames, I don’t care, I speak from experience. U will not parry that down on reaction. Hell, most people can’t even parry it WHEN THEY KNOW it’s coming, they just block it. So get outta hear w/ this shit.
And what is the original argument, anyway? I think Dudley vs. Alex is one of the most balanced matchups in the game. Like Prime said, Alex keep Dudley out of the air, and his ground game is comparable to Dudley. Dudley’s advantage of course is better mixups and sickining damage potential off of combos. I would say 5.5 in Dud’s favor.
good joke. like your title and signature.
Of course I did, who else could it be. :wgrin:
Only because too many ppl make a tier thread when they could have searched and find this (the best) one.
And about Alex, no Dudley does not outright own him, I am just saying Alex is never the favor (on paper) to win.
And I can only parry the EX elbow dash if I see it coming, like if we’re exchanging hits, and there are pauses between moves or if I left an opening. Other than that when I see the flash and try to parry its already too late, that shit is fast.
Oh, I finally see how you guys are reading these things, just because the character is above the other, does not mean that he or she rapes him. All characters kinda of dabble in each others matches. That’s why I put like dudley/akuma/urien/yang on the same level, because they all have the potential to beat tops (more so than hugo/Q anyways), it’s just tougher for them. Their matchups with each other are pretty even. I also put Oro/Necro/Alex on the same level over Ryu, Ibuki cause there are Oro/Necro/Alex specialists that handle the shit out of people, but a very few people. Ryu/Ibuki specialists are more common. Hugo/Q are also on the same level over 12/Remy/Elena. This is because they have high damage potential/high defense which is their only saving grace, and once again more character specialists in this category than 12/Remy/Elena. There will always be exceptions to the rule like Yamazaki and Aruka who seemingly make their characters seem top tier, but there are no real tiers in 3s, it just depends how you view the game.
epsilon stop beasting 
here is the tier in my honest opinion…
Yun…GENEI-JEN is toooooo strong, you can’t even block b/c of his command throw, plus after the genei you can get 1/4 bar back easy maybe half if your good enough…plus his dive kicks are free stuff all the time…he’s really fast. good match ups against everyone except ken…
CHUN…The baddest bi#ch…sa2, down mk, bk. fr…good god she is a tank…really hard to get in on her forward fr punch is a great zoner at the right distance… once sa2 is stocked she gets free throws…a beast only bad matchups are twins and 12
Ken…a really solid character easy to verify into super off of cr. st., down mk(which zones everyone except chun) lk lk…etc…two shoryukens for free in corner…which makes his tick game even sicker…EX tatsu is too sick in the air…i don’t know what beats it cleanly alot except for a few quick air moves, but even then…nice cross up…too good only bad match up is chun…
Makoto…NUFF SAID she might be better than ken…just b/c you can be so random and her command throw is just retarted it’s never safe to parry, jump or block against her lol…she might be better than chun even…makoto is sick…easy stun, easy 100 life stuff on lots of charcters…some have so few options against her…it’s sad… bad match ups are chun and ken…sorta
dudley people would be so much better with him if they wouldn’t jump as much lol…the wake up beast no one’s mix ups are better…you have to worry about his duck mix ups, high, low, short swing blow…is another option unto itself no one has a wake up option like this that beats throws so easily and keeps dudley close to you…which is always in his favor…sa3 and 1 are both really good…sa3’s bar is really short…st rh juggles are great and verifiable…then there’s his huge random damage factor…esp in corner against the unlucky ones who can get swept six times, then there’s his rose which keeps you from jumping away on wake up…too much rape…chun is a bad matchup…shotos can zone him but once he gets in their options go down…makoto is sorta bad too…
urien…one of the best offensive characters there is…can juggle you nastily from anywhere…has easy unblockables…no escape unless you parry…has good stamina…lot’s of anit airs and corner traps…you have to be really solid to use him though…his mp is great…great options in his ex head butt nasty throw set ups…
shotos pwn him…chun does, yun does…elena is tough too…
Ryu…can stun decently…all his super arts are good…does beefy damage on very simple combos…has good anit airs easy to verify supers with…great kara throw…nice tick throw set ups…good stamina…ex fireball is great move…his mk is great on crouch…good at footsies like all shotos are…tough matchup against chun, ken, elena…
yang…his sa2 is healthy in stock…his slashes are beast esp ex…has nasty mixups with his dash and delay on his slashes…has a great dive kick for cross ups…good throw set ups off pokes and slashes…very mobile…ken is a bad matchup as well as chun…makoto
akuma…great rush down…beastly kara throw…demon flip setups are sick…best character no one uses imo…easy combos, can punish you harshly with no meter…juggles out his ass…has a move that is unthrowable in arcade fwd+mp…too beast…has 2 great full stock supers one of which is unparriable and can murk your opponent off a lk tatsu…lp reset…raging demon is cancelable off any ground move…you can dash and do it even, also an anit air option…or if someone jumps in you have lots of anit airs…great pokes…super art is air available too(btw you should only ever use sa1)…can cancel off lots of pokes…really great character can get in for free easily on people b/c he has so many options his air fireball can pin down opponent and let you get close…can escape corner traps with his teleport…esp urien aegis stuff…only drawback is his stamina and lack of ex…lots of bad matchups due to stamina and stun makoto, chun, ken…yun…but if you are good it’s tough for people to react
oro is a beast man…great pokes his rh stuns so quick…nice super arts…many tricks command throw that has to be blocked…great anti airs and a nice double jump that is tricky…can do unblockables as well…top 3 are hard for him though…
ibuki…great rush down…so many pokes with frame adavantage…she can do a lp and have i think six frames to do what ever she wants…sa1 does sooo muc chip damage easy guaranteeed kills, good luck parrying it lol…great mixups…nice juggles…scary when she’s rushing.
top 3 are really hard…
necro…when played right is beast…great super arts all are useable imo…great pokes his mp owns lots of stuff on the ground…tough when he’s the one waking up though…great range game…drill kicks let him get in easily alot of the time…his limbs can be punished…his spot is debatable…top 3 are really hard…makoto is as well…dudley too…
alex…good character, nice throw game, nice lengthy pokes…decent combos…super arts leave a little to be desired has some really tough matchups…though when he’s the one waking up…
elena to me…is better than alex…but no one is really good with her besides combo…she has some nice pokes but her ones that aren’t nice are gay…her throw game is sick.and brave dance is a great super…good combos but not easy to do or get set ups for…can’t do much damage ouside of down mp into super…very mobile…her slide is good too for punishing…her back rh is beast too beats all lows and throws…top 3 pwn her badly though…
remy…is really underated…controls space so beast…but is very vunerable once someone is close to him…decent character…once he gets charging on you it’s tough…but he just has terrible stamina…top 3 are tough…esp chun she can super though lov’s…
hugo…the tank…very scary if your opp can parry…way tooo slow though…might not be as good as q…great throw game obviously!!! decent pokes…his claps are good for setups…have so much advantage on block…can lock you down don’t jump unless you throw out an attack lol…but that can get you batied adn 360’d…lot’s of matchups that are really hopeless on paper lol…pretty much can’t beat akuma…or yun…
Q…once he gets his taunts…whew…nice command throw…but so crappy when he’s the one waking up…you have to have a nice blocking game to play him period…good sa that can go through fireballs and easy to confirm…hi lp dash is nice for gettting in…lots of bad matchups…
twelve…if your good with him it’s a hard fight…but his stamina and lack of any way to escape on wake up kill him…lot’s of lot’s of bad matchups…
sean…ggpo…terrible…but fun to play…crap pokes and combos…sa’s suck sa1 is one parry for god’s sake…lot’s of bad matchups…
whem man i was bored at work lol…
“People make it sound like all his match-ups are throw away like him vs chun li.”
It’s not that. It’s just that very few matches are hopeless in this game. “Low tier” characters like Hugo or Q don’t really struggle with more than two or three matches either.
IMO:
Chun
Yun
Ken
Makoto
Dudley
Urien
Yang
Gouki
Ryu
Oro
Ibuki
Necro
Alex
Hugo
Elena
Remy
Q
12
Sean
I still believe Sean has some potential …
I’ll just wait till I see a jap beasting with him …
Your list is really close to mine. Cool
yeah it is lol…yours is good but i just think ryu is better than yang and oro…shotos are powerful in this game and have lots of good matchups…there lows are beast and his kara throw is great…plus he does great damage off of easy shit…easy verifiable stuff…
tiers are just about so many things…it’s alwasy a good heated discussion…i like it.
just curious, but what makes you believe Chun > Yun? Also, why Ken > Makoto?