Yeah I definitely wouldn’t recommend crossing up blanka unless he would die to a trade or he’s awful with reversals. A good player will knock you down into ambiguous mixups a great majority of the time. I was just testing against the cast for who could most easily make close s.lk x2 whiff.
These hitstun reels may affect combos with other characters other than dic’s, especially claw’s. Claw’s hitstun reel from a light attack is particularly absurd.
Hitstun reels for most of the cast are much more pronounced when medium or hard attacks are used. Those examples were just from light attacks. Link combos involving these attacks might actually be character dependent (on top of spacing dependent) specifically because of the hitstun reels.
Corrosion pointed out the other day that cammy’s j.lk crossup seems to behave differently on the 1p/2p side. I agreed that cammy’s crossup seemed really fickle, so I tested in frame advance w/ hitboxes. It definitely does behave very differently. Does anyone have any explanation for this wierd behavior? Whether cammy is selected by the 1p or 2p might affect although I haven’t tested that yet.
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No, that clearly looks like it should hit. I have set ups where you can get the cross up from the opposite side, but the spacing and situations are something that are impractical to eyeball against certain characters in a real match.
And it’s not just Cammy, I did testing with Fei as well. His cross up MK from the opposite side he is picked doesn’t hit deep enough to combo against a lot of characters because of how the properties change from where you attempt the cross up. Ultracombo did something to test N Sagat’s cross up MK and the same stuff was found.
My issue at this point is “Why is it happening?” NeoRay said that he’d ask around, as he believes this has been explored in Japan and known for some time.
With sagat, it seemed a bit harder to crossup meaty from the opposite you began on, but you can still do it, the spacing is just tighter. Sagat’s j.mk has a good hitbox as a crossup, much better than Cammy’s, so I think this situation would effect Cammy more.
ok I u/led another frame advance video w/ multiple situations
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frame advanced 25 frames away from ryu using macro before crossing up
26 frames of advance would make cammy no longer “cross up”
#1 - crossup from 1p side #2 - failed 2p cross-ups from 3 different screen positions #3 - successfully spaced j.lk attack that DOES NOT CROSS-UP (ryu must hold left to block) but cammy lands on other side #4 - various unsuccessful attempts to delay the crossup attack right before it hits ryu to try to get a hit
it may not even be possible to cross up ryu (so that he has to block a crossup) from the 2p side as cammy
Would you be willing to do this with other characters? There are differences similar to Cammy’s cross up that can be found in other characters and their cross ups.
Excellent work. I have a theory that hitbox detection always flows from p1 side to p2 side, regardless of who is p1 or p2. Red and green hitboxes are tested first for character on p1 side, then for character on p2 side. In the first case, cammy is on p1 side so her hitboxes are checked first in order of red then green. The red, blue, and green hitboxes in this case collide at the same time, but since red is checked first, a hit is detected. In the second case, cammy is now on the p2 side, so ryus hitboxes are checked first. Ryu has no red hitboxes out, so green is checked next, and since it is overlapping with cammys green hitbox, he is pushed out of the way before cammys hitboxes are checked. When cammys hitboxes are checked, the red no longer overlaps.
Seing the video, its more of blue and red hitboxes working perfectly fine, its the collision boxes(green) the ones making Ryu “teleport” when Cammy is on the p2 side
The green hitboxes cause the movement. The blue hitbox is the vulnerable hitbox. So when cammy is on the p1 side, her red hitbox is detected as overlapping ryus blue hitbox so a hit takes place. When ryu is on the p1 side, his green hitbox is detected as overlapping cammys green hitbox so the push occurs.
The green boxes are “collision” boxes and have nothing to do w/ registering hits. They prevent players from walking/jumping through each other and probably also determine throw distance (I haven’t verified). Obviously something different is happening w/ the collision boxes depending on the player’s side. The blue boxes are vulnerable hitboxes. The red are obviously attack boxes.
Ok I actually tested just for verification and 2p cammy does behave differently than 1p cammy, although it’s symmetrical. 2p cammy will be able to cross up easily on the “right” side while 2p cammy will have a really hard time (may be impossible?) to do a true crossup on the “left” side. This probably has similar explanations as to why 1p/2p dict behavie differently yet symmetrically when doing corner corpse hop shenanigans.
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I’ll mess around w/ some other crossups if you want.
It’s basically just flipped. I already wrote about it on Don’t Blow This, but assume that the same conditions that can occur on 1P side are flipped to 2P.
I’d like you to test Fei’s jump medium kick as a cross up and see if he can combo after a cross up from the opposite side he was picked.
I messed around a bit more and cammy can crossup certain characters on her “opposite” side. The main determining factor is how far their blue head vulnerable boxes extends above their green collision boxes. Tall characters like sagat, t-hawk, and zangief have really large blue vulnerable hitboxes and can be crossed up by cammy. However, cammy has to hit them fairly high because of how the green hitboxes interact, and it makes it tougher for her to link an attack upon landing.
Any other character besides cammy with a general crossup move has an easier time with their crossup b/c their attack boxes extend a lot farther down near or past their green box and/or they can hit behind their green box. I don’t think fei should suffer too much from this wierd collision box issue/glitch when crossing up. His attack box is just barely close enough so that he will hit ryu’s head before the green boxes collide.
The main issue w/ fei is it’s just harder to cross up b/c the timing is tighter than other cross-ups. If you do it too late, you can’t hit “behind” fei like you can with other crossups. In meaty situations, if you time your jump so you can’t hit your opponent meaty or close to meaty or the spacing is so that you wont hit their crouching hitboxes on the way down, they can duck the crossup and punish fei/cammy for free much more easily than other characters’ crossups. Fei can definitely combo after a cross-up mk. The timing for the link is just really tight. When trying to link, I usually try to link standing close hp~mp~lp since they have 4/4/3f startup respectively and will combo into rekkas. I usually combo into mp, mp rekkas and hitconfirm the last rekka to be either hp or lp. Looking at the frame data, you can also throw standing close lk in there since it has 4f startup and will cancel into rekkas. Trying to use low lk/mk is dangerous since they have 5f startup unless you’re able to land your crossup really deep. I don’t think it’s possible to land a deep crossup on certain characters.
It doesn’t look like fei/cammy should be able to crossup a crouching blanka, but they can. It’s because characters swivel when being crossed up, and blanka provides a vulnerable jutting head hitbox they can hit on the way down. Boxer is the other character with a really low vulnerable hitbox when crouching. He can be easily hit by fei on fei’s “starting” side, but fei has an incredibly hard time hitting box on the “opposite” side and seems to suffer from this crossup glitch in this situation. I haven’t bothered to test w/ cammy.
Cross-ups obviously seem to behave more wierdly and require more adjustment against the tall characters with tall green boxes. They’ll also be wierd against characters with a huge fat green box (honda). This explains the wierd jump arcs that happen when you try to meaty crossup these characters.
Ryu has a very wierd crossup hitbox. Most of the time he hits the crossup, it’s because he’s hitting “behind” him. Most of the time he’ll be colliding w/ the opponent’s green box before hitting his crossup. Other characters I think have this same issue where they’ll hit the crossup because they mainly hit behind them. Whether a crossup is a crossup that tends to hit vertically below or horizontally behind probably has certain ramifications. Reversals may interact differently depending a lot on spacing/timing. Crossups that can hit behind can be used as a crossup safe jump attack. Crossups that can’t normally hit behind can probably hit behind on certain characters whose blue hitboxes extend past their green boxes from the front so that they’ll get hit when they swivel.
So if you were to attempt a crossup from the side you started on, the crossup would be already in it’s active frames before the collision box is in place?
If you’re crossing up from the other side, the collision box is in place before the your attack is active, so you just get pushed out and your crossup whiffs?
I took screenshots of what the center of mass looks like on a corpse. I also took screenshots of common cross-up hitboxes. I believe the green collision boxes determine which way you have to block a crossup. I feel having knowledge of this will let you more easily block crossups and also more easily do ambiguous cross-ups.
Some characters I would consistently miss crossing up and get tossed upon landing. I’m sure some of you have experienced this same phenomenon. Misleading graphics are a good explanation!
