Just posting some cross-up information here. Don’t mind me. One day I’ll be done updating this FAQ. One day…but until then…enjoy…
Cross-ups:
Jump short: (Standing) Crosses up Guile (almost-cornered), Can?t connect deep enough to follow up on everyone else; (Crouching) Crosses up Chun Li, E. Honda, Blanka, Zangief, Guile (almost-cornered), Cammy, Claw, Sagat, Dictator; Misses everyone else.
Jump forward: (Standing) Misses Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Dee Jay; Crosses up everyone else, but can?t connect deep enough to follow up on T. Hawk and Boxer; (Crouching) Misses Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Blanka; Crosses up everyone else.
Jump roundhouse: (Standing) Crosses up everyone, but can?t connect deep enough to follow up on T. Hawk; (Crouching) Crosses up everyone.
Aerial Hurricane Kick (jump,d,db,b+kick): Knocks down without allowing a juggle; (Standing) Crosses up everyone; (Crouching) Misses Cammy, but crosses up everyone else.
Most reliable cross-ups: Jump roundhouse, Roundhouse Aerial Hurricane Kick (Juice variant is much quicker, of course)
Heh, that’s news to me. From what I have seen, the cross up tatsu seems to have whiffed on several crouching characters that weren’t cammy (Guile was the most recent ocurrence but Im sure he isn’t the only one).
An error with my timing? Im pretty precise with it when Im on point and I seem to always get it to make contact as long as the opponent is standing, but it still has whiffed many times against crouching opponents…
Well, given how slowly it rotates, it’s more possible to have it whiff on crouching characters.
Then again…I did test that with Ken’s HK and not Ryu’s. I don’t expect that the hitbox on Ken’s HK reaches lower than Ryu’s. If you want to look at it for me, you can. Let me know what you find and I’ll be more than willing to correct it and give you credit if I’m wrong.
I can’t answer the overall question you guys have, but I can confirm this part. Ken’s Air Tatsu does hit lower than Ryu’s, on startup, not really sure about the ending hit. The best way to confirm this, is to do the Juice Tatsu (aka Juice Kick, Top Spin Tatsu, etc) on a crouching opponent. If you do the jump back version (which is the only one I can consistently do), as opposed to the jump forward version, the opening hit of Ryu’s Juice Tatsu will whiff on a crouching Zangief, but Ken’s connects. Don’t know if this helped, but I think you should test with both Ryu and Ken OJ.
I think its also related to the ken’s jump punch cancel into tatsu hitting and ryu’s doesn’t. Perhaps the speed of ken’s tatsu is too fast for the game? Maybe just a byproduct of changing ken’s tatsu after WW.
I have no doubts that the two issues are related. Ryu’s Air Tatsu (and Akuma’s) is very different from Ken’s Air Tatsu. The biggest difference IMO can be seen when doing an early jf punch into Air Tatsu on a standing Sagat in the corner. This Air Tatsu is not the Juice Tatsu but is the one that floats down in a diagonal straight line. Ken will connect for 3 Tatsu hits, but Ryu and Akuma whiff their 1st hit and only get the last 2.
What’s funny is that the frame data doesn’t make sense. Both Yoga Book Hyper and NKI’s site show zero startup for all 3 characters’ Air Tatsus. If they have zero startup, that means that the hitting kick does not spin around first before hitting, the way it does on the ground. That means that it hits right away, on the 1st frame. But obviously, if that was the case, Ryu and Akuma wouldn’t whiff their 1st hit. Right? Can anybody explain this? I can’t.
Good point. But NKI’s site has the hitting frames of the Air Tatsu color coded to indicate when Ryu has his back turned and when he doesn’t.
Ryu’s Roundhouse Air Tatsu ?0?3?2?3?2?3?2?3?2?3?2?3?(landing)?5
Ken’s Roundhouse Air Tatsu ?0?2?1?2?2?2?1?2?2?2?1?2?2?2?1?2?2?2?1?2?(landing)?7
Only 1 frame difference in the duration of the 1st hit. Akuma’s is exactly the same as Ryu. Both yellow and red are hitting frames, but yellow ones indicate when their back is turned (the images on the right side of that pic I posted).
The input lag thread that you posted earlier (many thanks BTW, I’d tried reading it before but got my mind blown away by the technical wizardry:wow:), says that input lag can be random or varied. Sometimes you’ll get no input lag and sometimes only a few frames of input lag. As you can see, there’s only 1 frame difference in the 1st hit of the Tatsus. Plus I tested a lot with Ryu, Ken and Akuma on a standing Sagat, a standing Zangief and a crouching Zangief. I tried the jb Juice Tatsu and the early jf punch into Air Tatsu. Ryu and Akuma consistently whiffed their 1st hit, while Ken consistently connected his 1st hit. But hey, don’t take MY word for it. Try it yourself and report your tests. I actually WANT to be proven wrong.
You’re not wrong, I never knew the intricate details of the why or how, but it makes sense and after testing it with frames on, the easiest way to see it is via juice kick. Bear in mind, Ryu’s air tatsu still knocks down, which gives it a different use than Ken’s.
Yeah, Ryu’s Air Tatsu is more dangerous than Ken’s because of the knockdown. But Ken can get combos off his Air Tatsus (j punch, Air Tatsu, Super), and Ryu can knock you down with dangerous crossup Air Tatsus, he doesn’t really need a j punch, Air Tatsu honestly. Ryu can do fine without it.
At SVB this year Chunli1 (old school european player) claimed that when he picked deejay (his sub) vs ryu in the grand finals he got hit by a crossup hurricane while crouching because of the habit of doing so with Chun li to avoid it (nerves confused him I guess).
That leads me to believe chun can avoid it too, this guy is not one to have misconceptions about his main character.
For some mysterious reason forward/fierce punch gives me alot of happiness. Just doing the move after a knockdown, to get closer in order to start the FB mindgames really tickles my fancy. I don’t use it to combo or even hit someone, just moving forward with it is really cool. I think it looks powerful and the animation on it, albiet very limited, is pretty striking. The SFIV version looks weak comparatively.
If someone jumps at you and you could dragon, would it be advisable to jump forward strong, into strong-juggle? I am trying to find the right scenario to apply this move. I know it does more damage than a DP, if you get the 3 hits and it does allow you to move them half way across the screen, into to the corner and get into an advantageous position with the FB lockdown.
Well it depends on the character, claw’s jump vs. dictator’s jump as well as reflexes and what attack they use. You risk trading too as opposed to a really deep dragon.
J.mp does more damage, it moves the opponent further, the first hit is cancel-able into a hurricane kick, and you can add 2 hits of super at the end of it.
It wins some air trades, but loses to a ton of moves as well. Just have to learn when to use it, really, since dp/j.mp are not meant to be interchangeable, imo.
do those screen shots also apply to hdr, cos since ken has the bigger red hit box it should be harder to hit while im crouchining FP with guile and he doing a normal hurricane over my head…BUT I always hit ken cleanly, but with ryu sometimes its a clean hit sometimes its a trade
i have been practicing walking forward into a dragon punch. i swear i am doing the exact same motion everytime yet sometimes i get a fireball for no apparent reason. can anyone break it down for me? is the timing more strict on the motion if you do it after holding forward for a bit? like…if you have 15 frames to input the motion, does that begin (start the clock so to speak)after you’ve first pressed forward? and perhaps repeat itself once it runs out?
ive also noticed that i can get fireballs to come out when making sure that i dont reach the forward motion. is there a mechanic that lets you get fireballs without having to hit the last motion? its weird…if i try to walk forward and then fireball i get the same results that i get when going for dp’s. more often than not the DP comes out, but with fireballs sprinkled in. WTF?!
my guess right now is that as you walk forward, its as if the 15 frame stop watch begins and repeats itself. and since i cant judge 15/60th of a second, i may be finishing the motion at a point where the “stop watch” repeats during the motion…basically negating the forward part of the input.
and while im at it…can anyone explain what happens when the game slows down after an unblocked fireball hit? why is it harder to throw another fireball immediately after one hits? it seems like i am given a single frame to hit the button during slowdown, and that i also have to slow down the motion.
