There is no Shortcut to Perfection! Dudley Indepth Matchup Discussion DAY 4: E. Honda

[Mr.X]

He’s only harsh because he cares. Would you rather him not care and leave us with wrong information and no helpful info?

[3S]

yeah i suppose

[longstrider9999]

This is a tough match, honda has good wake up game, and i have tried and i cannot punish his summo headbutt with mp MGB, i can only punish him with U1, the other thing that has worked for me is CC his sumo spalsh, which is undignified for Dudley and you can see it in his expresion once Hondas butt touches Dudleys face, but it works, esentially if you can pull this on 2 or 3 times in a fight it might get sumo splash out for the game, as for the sumo headbutt all i can do is either, ex jet upper, neutral jump then EX MGB, or j.hk trying to land back on him, this last one is nearly impossible and its really dangerous the others are safe bet, the other thing is to keep preasure, block strings that end up with lp MGB, and try to stress your oponent, on PSN i dont face many “good” hondas, but i practice with a friend of mine, he is really good with the pork chop.

C u latters

[3S]

This is a tough match, honda has good wake up game, and i have tried and i cannot punish his summo headbutt with mp MGB, i can only punish him with U1, the other thing that has worked for me is CC his sumo spalsh, which is undignified for Dudley and you can see it in his expresion once Hondas butt touches Dudleys face, but it works, esentially if you can pull this on 2 or 3 times in a fight it might get sumo splash out for the game, as for the sumo headbutt all i can do is either, ex jet upper, neutral jump then EX MGB, or j.hk trying to land back on him, this last one is nearly impossible and its really dangerous the others are safe bet, the other thing is to keep preasure, block strings that end up with lp MGB, and try to stress your oponent, on PSN i dont face many “good” hondas, but i practice with a friend of mine, he is really good with the pork chop.

C u latters

Yo Burnt how’s it going?

[longstrider9999]

Yo Burnt how’s it going?

Not mutch man just chillin, decided to take your advice and trying to contribute something to the forums, i was surprised by this thread as recently i was playing my friend the honda player, because i saw it as a tough match for dudley, how’s it going on your end?

[SalPal]

i’d offer advice if i had it, but i’ve fought like 4 hondas online and they weren’t even that good. im just saying you’re still being kinda harsh, but thank you for the matchup information.

i was actually talking about Atrain who came into the thread, chastised me and hasn’t given an ounce of help.

i’m actually quite calm sitting here when i’m trolling. It’s just that a simple slap-on-the-wrist isn’t enough for scrubdicks. You have to blow them up so they know exactly what to and what not to post. This forum isn’t for casual willy-nilly gameplay. People come here to level the fuck up. Posting bad info directly influences, negatively, the ability for noobs to do that. It isn’t like i’m cross-eyed, quivering with anger, with a bleeding lower bottom lip because i’m biting it so hard. I’m just sad that i am the only one who will tell a noob he’s wrong and should stfu. If you look, i don’t troll people who give out actual good info. Those who post things that are intelligent and come fully from experience. This matchup thread isn’t for “theory-fighting” if you want to theory-fight, find a stream and GO APESHIT in the chat. Mark my words, he’ll think twice about posting stuff like that in a thread again. My job is done.

actual information:

anyway, so, cr.hk beats s.rh from max range, but a honda shouldn’t be whiffing a s.hk because the recovery is pretty ass. If a honda mistimes a standing fierce poke, it’s usually a free jumpin. A good honda, versed in footsies, will use his cr.lp, s.lp, and cr.mk for footsies, so, don’t expect to counterpoke a good honda with the slow cr.hk.

Buttsplash will make CC whiff when it crosses up at the tip of Dud’s hittable box. It’s really funny. Dudley flies away and when he flies into the corner and is easily punished. So, be aware that it isn’t ideal for dealing with buttsplash. s.mk, on the other hand, is a 100% buttsplash killer. If you see a honda start to go to buttsplash more than usual, you know they’re terrible though. a well-timed buttsplash is a decent replacement for hondas for crouch tech.

they OS charge+db ~ ub.lp+lk. so, it’ll either tech if they mistime or don’t have charge / Dudley eats a buttsplash.

ugh other stuff…Honda ticks into Oicho. don’t think you’re going to need to tech much because oicho does the trick for cr.lp/lk mixups. Also, tick into u2 is pretty hilarious when you’re just trying to block the constant barrage of fp.hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc U2 is the standard way they’re going to u2 you. It’s going to put you down about 500 damage if you sleep on the hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc cr.lp xx fp.hhs will catch you if you try to jump out of the u2 setup too. Enjoy guessing. another U2 setup is cr.lp xx EX.hhs straight into u2 after it ends. ex.hhs is +4 on hit and fp.hhs is +10 on hit. so, fp.hhs is a s.hk/cr.mk xx HP.hb (crouching). ex.hhb on hit might be a cr.lp xx hp.hhs link or just oicho / u2. Be on your toes.

Hondas jump. nj.fp shuts down your elbows. jb.rh and jb.mp are also strong. j.mp will ruin your AAs if they time it right with good spacing. This isn’t an AA and forget it situation. FADC jump-ins / FA1,2 them if you can. at best, you get the FA2 or get away with the backdash and end up building meter for ultra. if you back dash, at worst, the cr.lp air resets you and you can lol ex.srk the hhs cancel if you see it.

edit: o yeah honda’s j.mk crosses up. look for it.

[longstrider9999]

Hi there, after reading much of this post i decided to check a few things in the lab(training), with honda and dudley, mainly on the issue of the sumo headbutt, the ONLY one that can be punished with mp MGB is the hp sumo headbutt, lp and mp, are safe on block, and ex sumo headbutt is only punishable with U1 and the timing is tight, on the continual match its up to the player and his own “dudley style” my recomendations stand, keep pressure, watch out for wakeups, and unless you have a super bar, or u1 charged, dont block sumo headbutt, its better to safe jump, and punish with something else, and the block strings that finish with lp MGB, trying to land a s.HP for damage.

C u laterz

[RawwStewage]

i was actually talking about Atrain who came into the thread, chastised me and hasn’t given an ounce of help.

i’m actually quite calm sitting here when i’m trolling. It’s just that a simple slap-on-the-wrist isn’t enough for scrubdicks. You have to blow them up so they know exactly what to and what not to post. This forum isn’t for casual willy-nilly gameplay. People come here to level the fuck up. Posting bad info directly influences, negatively, the ability for noobs to do that. It isn’t like i’m cross-eyed, quivering with anger, with a bleeding lower bottom lip because i’m biting it so hard. I’m just sad that i am the only one who will tell a noob he’s wrong and should stfu. If you look, i don’t troll people who give out actual good info. Those who post things that are intelligent and come fully from experience. This matchup thread isn’t for “theory-fighting” if you want to theory-fight, find a stream and GO APESHIT in the chat. Mark my words, he’ll think twice about posting stuff like that in a thread again. My job is done.

actual information:

anyway, so, cr.hk beats s.rh from max range, but a honda shouldn’t be whiffing a s.hk because the recovery is pretty ass. If a honda mistimes a standing fierce poke, it’s usually a free jumpin. A good honda, versed in footsies, will use his cr.lp, s.lp, and cr.mk for footsies, so, don’t expect to counterpoke a good honda with the slow cr.hk.

Buttsplash will make CC whiff when it crosses up at the tip of Dud’s hittable box. It’s really funny. Dudley flies away and when he flies into the corner and is easily punished. So, be aware that it isn’t ideal for dealing with buttsplash. s.mk, on the other hand, is a 100% buttsplash killer. If you see a honda start to go to buttsplash more than usual, you know they’re terrible though. a well-timed buttsplash is a decent replacement for hondas for crouch tech.

they OS charge+db ~ ub.lp+lk. so, it’ll either tech if they mistime or don’t have charge / Dudley eats a buttsplash.

ugh other stuff…Honda ticks into Oicho. don’t think you’re going to need to tech much because oicho does the trick for cr.lp/lk mixups. Also, tick into u2 is pretty hilarious when you’re just trying to block the constant barrage of fp.hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc U2 is the standard way they’re going to u2 you. It’s going to put you down about 500 damage if you sleep on the hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc cr.lp xx fp.hhs will catch you if you try to jump out of the u2 setup too. Enjoy guessing. another U2 setup is cr.lp xx EX.hhs straight into u2 after it ends. ex.hhs is +4 on hit and fp.hhs is +10 on hit. so, fp.hhs is a s.hk/cr.mk xx HP.hb (crouching). ex.hhb on hit might be a cr.lp xx hp.hhs link or just oicho / u2. Be on your toes.

Hondas jump. nj.fp shuts down your elbows. jb.rh and jb.mp are also strong. j.mp will ruin your AAs if they time it right with good spacing. This isn’t an AA and forget it situation. FADC jump-ins / FA1,2 them if you can. at best, you get the FA2 or get away with the backdash and end up building meter for ultra. if you back dash, at worst, the cr.lp air resets you and you can lol ex.srk the hhs cancel if you see it.

edit: o yeah honda’s j.mk crosses up. look for it.

Imo don’t focus attack the jump ins. Just ex upper if you have the meter. If not, then you can think about the focus, but it’s still not a good idea.

Also st.rh can tag honda’s st.rh.

Unrelated to matchup, I’m almost with you on how to handle bad info handling. I’m tired of seeing bad dudley’s praised and bad tips not being taken as such.

[Logan_Sama]

st.HP anf F+HP beat all of honda’s weaker ranged pokes, so a Honda who is walking forward and trying to use those pokes will be dying to the tune of 163dmg a time, if not more if you can react to the f+HP counter hit and combo the st.HK after into ex MGB.

Honda shouldn’t be able to push you back into the corner if you are pressing buttons at the right time. If he gets you into the corner, you better hope you have EX to get out of there.

Honda’s j.MP is trade Jet Upper into ducking straight > ultra or super food. Eat it up gratefully.

[Atrain]

i was actually talking about Atrain who came into the thread, chastised me and hasn’t given an ounce of help.

i’m actually quite calm sitting here when i’m trolling. It’s just that a simple slap-on-the-wrist isn’t enough for scrubdicks. You have to blow them up so they know exactly what to and what not to post. This forum isn’t for casual willy-nilly gameplay. People come here to level the fuck up. Posting bad info directly influences, negatively, the ability for noobs to do that. It isn’t like i’m cross-eyed, quivering with anger, with a bleeding lower bottom lip because i’m biting it so hard. I’m just sad that i am the only one who will tell a noob he’s wrong and should stfu. If you look, i don’t troll people who give out actual good info. Those who post things that are intelligent and come fully from experience. This matchup thread isn’t for “theory-fighting” if you want to theory-fight, find a stream and GO APESHIT in the chat. Mark my words, he’ll think twice about posting stuff like that in a thread again. My job is done.

actual information:

anyway, so, cr.hk beats s.rh from max range, but a honda shouldn’t be whiffing a s.hk because the recovery is pretty ass. If a honda mistimes a standing fierce poke, it’s usually a free jumpin. A good honda, versed in footsies, will use his cr.lp, s.lp, and cr.mk for footsies, so, don’t expect to counterpoke a good honda with the slow cr.hk.

Buttsplash will make CC whiff when it crosses up at the tip of Dud’s hittable box. It’s really funny. Dudley flies away and when he flies into the corner and is easily punished. So, be aware that it isn’t ideal for dealing with buttsplash. s.mk, on the other hand, is a 100% buttsplash killer. If you see a honda start to go to buttsplash more than usual, you know they’re terrible though. a well-timed buttsplash is a decent replacement for hondas for crouch tech.

they OS charge+db ~ ub.lp+lk. so, it’ll either tech if they mistime or don’t have charge / Dudley eats a buttsplash.

ugh other stuff…Honda ticks into Oicho. don’t think you’re going to need to tech much because oicho does the trick for cr.lp/lk mixups. Also, tick into u2 is pretty hilarious when you’re just trying to block the constant barrage of fp.hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc U2 is the standard way they’re going to u2 you. It’s going to put you down about 500 damage if you sleep on the hhs. Also, cr.lp xx fp.hhs fadc cr.lp xx fp.hhs will catch you if you try to jump out of the u2 setup too. Enjoy guessing. another U2 setup is cr.lp xx EX.hhs straight into u2 after it ends. ex.hhs is +4 on hit and fp.hhs is +10 on hit. so, fp.hhs is a s.hk/cr.mk xx HP.hb (crouching). ex.hhb on hit might be a cr.lp xx hp.hhs link or just oicho / u2. Be on your toes.

Hondas jump. nj.fp shuts down your elbows. jb.rh and jb.mp are also strong. j.mp will ruin your AAs if they time it right with good spacing. This isn’t an AA and forget it situation. FADC jump-ins / FA1,2 them if you can. at best, you get the FA2 or get away with the backdash and end up building meter for ultra. if you back dash, at worst, the cr.lp air resets you and you can lol ex.srk the hhs cancel if you see it.

edit: o yeah honda’s j.mk crosses up. look for it.

I would give Advice. but I have literally only played one good Honda since super was released and I couldn’t do nothing to Honda.

[SalPal]

Imo don’t focus attack the jump ins. Just ex upper if you have the meter. If not, then you can think about the focus, but it’s still not a good idea.

fair enough. I just don’t really like wasting an EX just to keep a honda out. I’d rather use that EX to turn it into damage. Honda’s such a tank, an ex DP really just tickles. Also, getting the Ultra 1 via fadc absorb will completely shut down his headbutt game. 1 blocked wakeup EX headbutt turns into Honda taking around 400 damage. As Logan said, you can go for the counterhit setups though with regular DP. It’s just really about personal preference and how often the honda will headbutt you. There are multiple ways of dealing with AA situations, i was just offering another, unstated alternative.

I would give Advice. but I have literally only played one good Honda since super was released and I couldn’t do nothing to Honda.

then don’t post in the thread. Not to be rude, but this is for people to read and understand the matchups. This isn’t a chatroom. Damn, that really sounds rude, but don’t take it that way. These threads are supposed to be accessible and noobs already have enough problems reading threads without having to wade through people arguing.

Also, since you’ve only played 1 good honda and got blown up, you should appreciate my sentiment of helping people who don’t understand the matchup by attempting to reduce the amount of misinformation in the thread. just sayin’.

180 dmg tickles? :looney:

for 1 ex bar compared to an ex mgb combo.
also, sarcasm.

[RawwStewage]

180 dmg tickles? :looney:

[Mr.X]

Hi there, after reading much of this post i decided to check a few things in the lab(training), with honda and dudley, mainly on the issue of the sumo headbutt, the ONLY one that can be punished with mp MGB is the hp sumo headbutt, lp and mp, are safe on block, and ex sumo headbutt is punishable by both ex MGB and mp MGB, on the continual match its up to the player and his own “dudley style” my recomendations stand, keep pressure, watch out for wakeups, and unless you have a super bar, or u1 charged, dont block sumo headbutt, its better to safe jump, and punish with something else, and the block strings that finish with lp MGB, trying to land a s.HP for damage.

C u laterz

EX HB is not punishable by anything other than Rolling Thunder. I have no idea how you were landing MP MGB or EX MGB after an EX Headbutt.

[longstrider9999]

EX HB is not punishable by anything other than Rolling Thunder. I have no idea how you were landing MP MGB or EX MGB after an EX Headbutt.

I did them in a fight with my friend, unless he wasnt blocking but there was no match only checking how to punish, if you say its not ill check it again and see if it does or not, i double check them again, at first i was sure it was not punishable, but then i got surprised to se the mgb land, again as i told you ill double check it. Ill post the info tomorrow.

[humbag]

So I was messing with OS j.mk->ex dp in training mode…

It beats ex headbutt, ex buttslam, ex ochio, ultras, super.

But…if Honda does wake up lk buttslam, ex dp whiffs, he keeps you in front so he can keep back charge and then hit you with a massive combo. Might need better testing but its hondas best option to escape safe jump j.mk ex dp OS.

[longstrider9999]

EX HB is not punishable by anything other than Rolling Thunder. I have no idea how you were landing MP MGB or EX MGB after an EX Headbutt.

Just finished on the lab with honda, u were right, i edited the previous post, to deliver the propper info. sorry about that.

[RawwStewage]

AA U1 Neutral jump fierce(or any button really). Not too hard but if you do it too early the first hit whiffs and he can block the rest. Only works if he presses a button otherwise he can block.

[DHEvil]

i cannot punish his summo headbutt with mp MGB, i can only punish him with U1, the other thing that has worked for me is CC his sumo spalsh, which is undignified for Dudley and you can see it in his expresion once Hondas butt touches Dudleys face

Fucking.

Lol.

[bovined]

I have fought my bro eternally with this matchup and have put in literally thousands of rounds on this fight so I have to say that unfortunately it really is a 3-7 matchup for Duds. Hit up sanrenko on PSN or XBL if you want to see how bad this matchup really is.

SalPal has hit most of the points here. Honda jumpins are tough to AA between the j. LP, MP and HK. Usual MK AA is ineffective at many of the proper distances for almost all of these attacks. c HP will also miss AA due to it being too slow. You may actually have a better change with a stand MP against these jump ins so watch your distances and be ready to use one of these two (st MK, st MP) for AA to keep him out. DONT USE st HP or toward HP. You will eat a nice 10 hit combo over 320dmg for your troubles.

At the start of the match try to bulldog and jump in immediately at the start of the match with peoples elbow and MK and when you connect hit your damn links. Without meter just go for cr MP into LP MGB to chip away and build your meter while staying safe or BnB with cr LP, cr LP, st HK into ex MGB once you have meter. Keep him on the defensive but once he gets meter, back the hell off as EX headbutt will dominate all your jump in attacks and EX ochios will kill your jumpin blockstring followups.

On knockdowns get in with your hi low mixup provided he has no meter and you got your meaties down. If he has meter I would not even try it and would rather go for an empty jump over ex jet upper. You may catch them off guard here as they try to counter the jump in with an ex headbutt but most of the time they will be charging the wrong way and if he is going for splash ex jet upper should kill it. However if he gets wise to this and anticipates he will wait and just jab into headbutt for your troubles. If you see this go for jump over option select lk, lk/mk into bnb. Having no true cross up attack for duds really blows by the way.

Once he has meter you really have to hope you have a life lead and that he has to come after you now because otherwise you are screwed. IF you have life lead at this point follow Salpal advice and FA deep jump ins and pokes from st HK, LP and MP. Even if you only get FA1 and a trade hit its still worth it to keep him honest on the pokes. At beyond the st RH range you can use st FP as well for sneak in hhs attempts. Trades here are acceptable.

Good hondas will not headbutt and only use them in close so forget all that BS about FP headbutt all day because only noobs will do that shit. I gave up using U1 on this matchup because he never headbutts so switching to U2 gives me some added options on any bad jumpins and sumo splash shenanigans and increased damage for any combo oppurtunities I get it.

I will try to post some links to vids on some matches to show how bad this is but any advice would be great as well as I hate this matchup on par with Guile.

[brainpipe]

@Bovined:
People love to throw out 3-7 too liberally. This match up is definitely not that bad. Not going to say its easy, but You can pressure him with safe jumps. You can punish all headbutts for half his health with ultra 1. You CAN AA him easily with all sorts of normals and air to air normals if you know your spacing properly and reactions are on point. You can also counter poke lots of his normals with buffered s.RH xx EX MGB. s.FP, and F+FP can stuff headbutts, not to mention j. RH can stuff a lot of his AA, including badly timed/spaced headbutts. I don’t see how this many options equates to 3-7 against Dudley.

Keep in mind Sal Pal’s post about this match up is from August, and to quote The Dude, new information has come to light.

Just because you can’t beat your friend’s Honda doesn’t mean that the match up is 3-7. It took me a long time to be able to put up a fight against Mr. SNK’s Honda, and its still not an easy fight, but digging deep to find solutions has paid off. Luckily in AE, this fight has only become easier.

Also, I recommend you switch back to ultra 1 and start baiting those up close headbutts that you know they are saving their meter for. Just having the ultra there to shut down random headbutts is worth it imo. Otherwise a smart Honda will press you with them all day.