That’s afrolegends, one of the best ST players in America and winner of this year’s HDR EVO tournament, vs. IrrepressibleGuile, an English player with essentially no credentials (outside the occasional shout-out from fellow XBL players) who exclusively plays a by-the-numbers, mega-turtle Guile.
Anyone who sees the merit in Thelo’s original post (and toward the express purpose of winning a match, it does have merit, certainly) might want to watch those videos. That’s one of the best players in the world being subjected to some withering and relentless defensive play by a relative nobody, and it results in his losing fairly handily, despite his more impressive display of execution.
I think it’s a terribly dull and contemptible way to play the game, but it does work.
The way I understood Thelo’s post, it does not mean you should play reaction all the time with all characters in every situation. He just explain how to react better, and in some situations if you can react well, you dont need the risk of anticipation.
In many matchups one character reacts while the other one try to break reaction (Blanka vs Zangief, for exemple). To play well in the two sides of the match, its good to understant reaction mechanics. What characters like Fei and Cammy do is make reaction as hard as they can, that’s why they are so fast. They try to exploit the limitations of human reaction to reach their goal. They need to attack in so many ways that the tree decision is too big for anyone to react to everthing they do. That’s the same theory used in the other side.
That’s why I think the post is very accurate, indeed. Maybe Thelo should make the post a little more clear in those points? Or I just didnt get it at all…
I can agree with you Milo turtling is boring and really annoying to play against, but Thelo’s post wasn’t so much advocating to always turtle.
Thelo good post by the way as much as a I hate to admit it, and it isn’t my style of play at all it really works. You and Shari are both super patient reactive players and it works for you. I need more of a mix of constant attack with some reaction based defense mixed in there. Probably more constant attack if anything, but i can say that as I have gotten better with Blanka reaction defense can help to getting the momentum I need to set things up for big damage.
I still prefer a more offensive constantly attacking mindset, but I can understand what you were getting at with your post Good job.
BlueTallCans
Great post and, I thought, perfectly explained with great language. It’s something I’ve always subconciously understood, yet never tried to or saw defined in such a manner. I too have been trying to work on being more reactive in my play where possible.
I also suspect that this will also explain how much online lag will affect you. Obviously lag affects everything to some extent, but it has it’s most extreme effect on reaction - since you simply cannot react properly. So conversely, in lag, anticipation skills & style become more valuable. It’s why I find lag actually helps the ‘aggressor’ in most matchups.
There are many things that can affect your ability to react properly, like online lag, or body fatigue, or uncomfortable setups. The more comfortable you are, the less lag there is, and the more awake you are, the more you should try to use reaction - and conversely, when you’re playing tired at 4am at your friend’s house on his unfamiliar stick against an overseas player, you should definitely tilt more towards anticipation and aggression.
That also goes in reverse - if you notice that your opponent is generally tired / uncomfortable, anticipation becomes safer since his reaction will be weaker. Maybe it seems obvious but sometimes you don’t really think about it.
People are creatures of habit, and usually have a tendency to repeat things that have good results. Thus the ability to recognize patterns, and being correctly able to anticipate future moves.
Anticipation is not just guessing. It is doing a move, and forcing the desired reaction out of the opponent.
Ryu’s fake fireball is a perfect move showing the value of anticipation to create a reaction. Fake with anticipation that opponent will jump, opponent reacts by jumping, Smack with dp.
Thelo is not talking about anticipating blindly, he is talking about being able to feel out an opponent’s next move based on the following:
Knowledge of the opponent’s character. This includes their range, timing, specials.
Opponent’s rhythm. The character doesn’t define the rhythm, just their possibilities in terms of moveset. For example: Turtle Guile, simply waiting for wrong move, or the aggressive Guile who is creating the opening by following Sonic-booms… so on.
Prior experience with players. If you’ve played an opponent before, you have a high chance of correctly anticipating his next move.
Knowledge of your own character. Knowing your own possibilities to counter correctly, etc.
Any experienced SF fighter will tell you that many opponents will use the same move if they see success with it at any point. Gief cross up body smash into SPD, anyone? Fei Chicken wing juggle to dp? DeeJay Crossup Combo on the house? LOL Few opponent’s change their habits unless they are fighting true top notch players, who are more versatile.
Although I don’t play Honda, it really helped me understand why I play the characters I do, not just in HDR. I’d recommend this to anyone new who has yet to rationalize why they play the way they do, even if they don’t necessarily play in a reactionary style. This guide and the posts that follow it really gets you thinking.
I had this fool milo on ignore but someobdy told me about his post. LMAO, milo you are a 39 year man hating on somebody who is much younger than you just because of the style of their gameplay, I just cant find the words to describe your utter and shameless sadness. Any gameplay style is legitimate and just beacuse you dont like turtling dosnt mean that everybody else does. Afro legends sent me a friend reuqest after those matches so I can deduce from that he enjoyed the games as much as I did.
For me, the fun in this game comes from playing an opponant who uses sound strategy. When I’m playing a player of this calibre it becomes a test of nerve, skill, execution, anticipation, reaction and timing. Playing a hyper defensive style is so much more than just reaction, you also have to balance it out with a fair amount of anticipation. Turtling, by itself is not a guranteed means of victory, there are many effective ways to counter a turtler, however if you just mindlessly attack a defensive guile player then you will lose very quickly. Turtling is just a subtle way of being on the offensive. Any attack is an offensive move, if somebody just defended then they would not be able to damage their opponant at all.
And all this nonsense about credentials…who gives a fuck?? Seriously,So what if somebody isnt known on the professional levels, does that mean you cant take them seriously. Being a professional player does not mean that you cannot be beat by somebody who only plays the game casually. Also, just because you havnt won any tournements dosnt mean you dont have any thing meaningful to say about the game. Some of the best players I have come across are all casual players. Yes, professional players are good but there are casual players who are just as good.
The aim of the game is to win, not to entertain your opponant. Whats the point in complaining about somebodies playing style…if it bothers you that much you can either not play that person OR adapt your playing style so that it counters theres.
So what if you find turtling boring…again who gives a fuck what you think? Fun is an automatic factor of the game, if you didnt have fun then you would not play it.
You are isolated in your opinions and sheer jealousy and envy is completly obvious for all to observe. You need to chill out and stop being so obsessed with me and my playing style. How many threads do you intend to plague with your maliciousness for me?, and how many times are you going to continue to try and provoke me into a pointless online forum argument. You are 39 years old I would expect better from somebody of your age.
You need address the reason why you are so obsessed with me. You are the only person here who has an active hatred for somebody you havn’t even played. If you hate me so much, then why do you watch my videos? why am I constantly mentioned in your posts, you even use google to look me up, why do you keep looking at my profile page…you are obsessed
btw…thanks for watching my videos, I’m pleased that you enjoy them.
To everyone else…sorry for the slight derailment, I’m putting him back on ignore.
I’m still confused as to whether tick throwing is prediction or reaction based. On one hand, you could predict that the opponent wants to block your whole block string, so you stop in the middle of it and walk up-throw. But you could also start a string and see that the attacks aren’t connecting and on reaction decide to throw.
