TBH, I think the range is pretty good, considering that it could be used as a counter poke instead of a conventional poke.
However the only reason why I don’t like cr.mk is the fact that this attack does not hit low.
Yeah, cr.mk is basically the go to poke to punish unsafe stuff since it’s 3 frames faster than cr.mp. It’s pretty good for that actually. cr.mk xx windmill tag cancel = 350-400+ punish for 1 bar vs anything that’s -7 or more. That’s extremely good.
But imo it should only be used for precisely that: punishing. For everything else, cr.mp is miles better.
Is it common knowledge that character combos are not as good as tag combos? With Yoshi I don’t have good tags except very scaled switch cancel combos.
Does Yoshi have the only techable groundbounce in the game? I made some tag combos and realized people were teching and i could not finish my combo, so i went to training and tried about 3 other characters jumping heavy kicks and u could not tech theirs, it was very upsetting.
I believe so. Is it untechable on CH though?
Man I just realized that last night when I set the dummy to quick recovery. He always teched the j.hk.
I was bummed because j.hk was my favorite air to air because of the ground bounce. But if they can tech the ground bounce it becomes pretty subpar. You’re better off using j.mk because on regular hit it can create and ambiguous cross over and on counter hit you can still juggle with st.mp, st.mk xx Genhosen.
I’ve never played tekken before but I wanted something fresh and new. I picked Yoshi because I think he’s pretty cool but wow what a disappointment. I can go into the game and do well with sf characters because of familiarity but I don’t even know how to play with yoshi really. How do I open people up, hit confirming his jab punches are pretty hard, not very consistent. His ground bounce can be teched! No cancelable heavy normals, slow walk speed, hella unsafe and not very damaging. Why is he this way? Also I noticed in the sfxt yoshi/raven trailer yoshi cancels off a heavy normal into a special but I don’t remember what. Why did they take this out? I really want to make him work better =[
Because he can potentially be extremely annoying in the right hands. You have to realize Yoshimitsu is not a rushdown or zoner type character, he is a midrange whiff punisher with excellent footsies, great anti-airs and tools to play some keep away. If he had good damage output, safe on block specials and cancelable heavy normals he would probably be a little too good.
Yoshimitsu having low damage output hardly matters anyway because in this game you can just launch and get your partner to do 400-500+ then bring back Yoshi to essentially build meter/kill time and overall just annoy people.
He might be very unsafe on block and sometimes even on hit, but you can make him safe by spending 1 meter for a tag cancel. And since windmill builds a lot of meter on block you can build back like half of the meter you just spent. That’s extremely good. Especially considering how Yoshimitsu can build a ton of meter very quickly using his super charge cancel over and over again. His forward dash and backdash are quick and don’t travel very far. What this means is you can pretty much abuse his SSC to build meter very quickly compared to other characters.
I understand what you’re saying. Ill have to be more patient with this. Is there any new tech on charge canceling yet which we can apply it to?
Depends on how much meter we get (if any) just for charging and dash cancelling. If there is, threatening with it on approach would give yoshi the time to charge for tag cancel.
I mean did you guys see the video by Desk on charge cancelling into combos? Done with ogre? I’m going to look into this after work to see if I can find some new tech.
Warning: incoming wall of text.
I doubt there’s anything worthwhile for yoshimitsu in terms of dash cancelling. His forward dash is really fast but doesn’t move him too far, and he can’t cancel off of any Hp, so I dunno. Plus the charge is a half circle back motion which wouldn’t make things any easier.
The guide says the earliest he can cancel the charge is in frame 5, with a forward dash duration of 16 frames, and a backward dash duration of 27 frames. I would say you could use the dash cancel for pressure, like cancelling out of cr mp or cr mk pokes to windmill and dashing forwards, but you’d be crazy unsafe and would be better off just cancelling into poison breath anyways since it puts you at the right distance for yoshi’s mid-range game.
I don’t know much at all about law and ogre who desk was using in that video, but they seem to be some of the characters that benefit from the charge cancelling dashes, similar to how Ryu can cancel sweeps into fireball cancels for better frame advantage. That doesn’t seem to be the case since yoshi can’t cancel off of sweep or any hp. Dunno.
However, because of how windmill works and has crazy range, he benefits from staying far away and charging windmill. It’s pretty safe to charge the move full screen and catch the opponent jumping in from too far away. Also because charging a move to ex and dash cancelling gives you automatic counter on the next move (whiffed or not) you can do something like finish a combo with srk, teleport to the back of the screen and charge to ex, cancel if they don’t get close or throw a fireball, and use the auto counter properties to get extra damage on any jump in you can punish with srk or whatever. The auto counter properties will stay with you during teleports too.
On another note, I posted this in the combos thread, so I’ll make a shorter version of what I said there here.
Ending a combo with a chain combo like srk> lk, st mp, st hp will put you at a good range for a jumpin cross up or cr mp, st mk pokes while sacrificing some damage. For use mid screen. Ending with hk instead pushes you too far back because of the animation. Ending with an srk or ex windmill is better in the corner (remember that ex windmill has good damage but will put you in the corner, so use it for kills mostly).
If you finish a combo with srk, a meaty mk poison breath will force a block from quick standing opponents, and leave you in range to poke with c mp and st mk, try an overhead or jumpin with a cross up. It SHOULD force a block, it’s possible some characters can srk or ex messiah and whatnot from quicksand but I didn’t test it, but you shouldn’t be messing with those characters anyways, after an srk on them you’d want to take a step back and then jump forward for the cross up or teleport out depending on the situation.
Ending combos with one light and one medium attack is often more damaging than lk, lk, mk xx srk. I prefer cr. lp, cr mp xx srk, but really any light and then medium is the same. This is better for combos off of jump attacks. if yoshi is coming in off a tag or switch cancel, it’s likely that the best option is to just cancel off a cr lp to help with scaling.
I like to confirm jump hits with close st mp, then I link into a lp (st or cr) cancel into uppercut. If you’d rather tag, you can jump in, confirm with close st mp, then link into the chain combo of your choice. Confirming a jump atk hit with close st mp is better than confirming with a st mk or really anything else IMO. You can also do something like confirm the hit with close st mp, then chain st lp, mk/close mp(the chain will bring you close enough) xx ex breath or ex windmill or super.
[media=youtube]kTIzqqEtXpc[/media]!
Go to 00:44
This Yoshi is able to combo his sliding headbutt after a jumping flea. The guide says that jumping flea is +6 on hit and the slide should have 17 startup frames…i think i’m missing something
How are you guys doing against keepaway characters like Guile/Chun? Is Flea stance supposed to be the answer to this? I know you can super jump while you’re in the stance and crouching goes under fireballs. Also you can do that headbutt but it’s a little hard to react to things. Seems tough for Yoshi. =p
^edit: I guess you can combo into headbutt. Also was reading the frame data and didn’t think that was possible… hrm.
You can also combo into headbutt slide if they low poke your sword during flea. I had the same problem with the frame data. No idea.
Windmill counters grapplers, they press a button and eat a charged up windmill, so great.
Meaty poison is great, until they roll behind you. When it comes to meaty normals, I always use c.mk, then go for a c.jab if they block it.
And at max range would stone fist be safe? For example, canceling it from c.mp/s.mk to stone fists hits them right at the tip. Not sure if this will be useful, since windmill tag out would be better. I just want more pressure options with yoshi.
So I was playing around with Yoshi and realized he has this weird meta-game while he’s charging. So if you charge from a distance, your opponent can’t jump at you because you can let go and get a free AA (obviously better if you can get the charge for the AA). Same goes with forward dash (not sure about wavedash) and easy-to-react normals/special moves. You can charge for EX and go for the counter OH for a follow up DP combo. I’m not sure how effective this may be in certain matchups, but it should work against everyone-- just have to adjust distances for each character. Sorry if this is already how you guys are playing him, just thought it was interesting.
Random tidbit, jump back fierce catches big characters crouching. No fuzzy guard though =[
True, windmill charge basically keeps our opponents grounded and forces them to play on their toes. They can’t jump, they can’t safely dash or backdash and throwing pokes and slow specials becomes super risky for them. What smart players will likely do is block or back away out of windmill range when they see you charging. That’s their safest options. This fear of the windmill can also condition them to commit to block which might allow you to dash in for a quick throw. And when they see we’re not charging the windmill, they might try to take advantage of that moment to jump in on us. Which is where Yoshi’s great anti-airs come into play. 
The more I spend time with Yoshimitsu in training the more I realize how much potential he has. Yoshi has some really dirty tricks up his sleeves.
Speaking of which, the overhead is the most predictable thing our opponents will expect when they see us store a counter hit. So we can use that to our advantage and go for Sweep or Stone Fists instead of the overhead.
[media=youtube]CgkXPIbNx_I[/media]
Fun Fact: If you trade windmill with a fireball, you won’t actually hit them with the sword part of windmill, but they’ll be in stun long enough for you to combo off it.
Also: Jumping Fierce is incredibly abusable.