The Wood Workers Thread

Tech Talk
81

I’m with you Phil. I would join with the quickness. But… we do have this in Brooklyn:
http://treehouse-nyc.com/resources

You can go down and use their woodshop with a $50 daypass (not listed on the site, but I emailed them.)

82

Thanks so much for weighing in on the safety factor Michael :slight_smile:

I would also agree the it’s more of a question of when lol My hands have been cut burned and a smooshed fingernail to make the package complete. One of my strongest suggestion is drill press clamps and strong eye protection for the press and table saw.

Artard Lesson 1
Couple of weeks ago I was in a rush to put a few last minute holes in a case using the drill press. Thought I would just make it quick and didn’t clamp down the cp to the press table (dummie I know). The forstner bit I was using caught a snap and spun the 1/2" mdf out of control slapping the crap out of my arm as it dislodged itself from the table (looked like a cool ninja star though lol)

Artard Lesson 2
A few days ago I was cutting some purple heart wood for a custom box. While cutting the small support blocks for the case’s inside one piece became slightly jammed between the blade and the fence (pushing stick was no help with that wood). The 1" thick block split, and shot right out of the table saw in two pieces one hitting me in the side of my neck the other pinged right off the sides of my eyewear damn near cracking the glasses. Had it not been for the eye protection I would’ve been the Worlds best cosplay Sagat.

83

Thanks for the saftey tips/warnings, duders. I updated my post with the jig.

84

This is no joke, always be weary when working with power tools. I might suck with wood but I did take automotive bodyworking and injuries are no joke.

ALWAYS

  • Clamp your work piece
  • Maintain your tools
  • Keep your workspace clean
  • Use the tools ONLY for their manufactured purpose regardless of what someone tells you
  • Wear eye and respiratory protection
  • This one I know isn’t always possible but try to work only when there are other people around, if you’re at home then only work when there are other people there so if you do get injured very badly there is someone to help you
  • Wear appropriate gloves for the situation (see below)
    . Gloves to wear:
    . Handling sheet metal: Leather gloves
    . Working with solvents (paint, thinner, etc): Latex or neoprene gloves
    . Working with extremely corrosive products (paint stripper, etc): Thick rubber gloves (not dishwashing ones, the ones for this are MUCH thicker)

I mean, protective eyewear is like $5, respiratory protection is like $15 for a box of dusts masks and the gloves are cheap ($15 for leather, $10 for rubber, $70 for 1000 neoprene gloves :)) and they will be godsends.

If you paint or work with resins (fg/cf/kevlar) a lot, invest in a fresh air system, it pumps clean air from outside so you’re not breathing poorly filtered air but breathing clean air instead. It also keeps you cool :slight_smile: The organic masks really aren’t that great unless you’re painting in a very well ventilated area (outside or garage door open + all windows) or are just using rattle cans once and awhile. Primers and clearcoats are the worst because of the hardeners.

Also,
NEVER

  • Assume that you can be a substitute for a clamp and hold something down
  • Take your eyes aways from the tool that you’re using and the piece that you’re working on, even if someone is talking to you, screw them let them wait
  • Wear any jewelery or wired headphones (could pull you into the tool or just cause other or larger injuries)
  • Leave your tools running unattended (do not leave while the grinder/other rotary tool is spinning even if it is off)
  • Think that you will be safe without eye protection because I’ve seen many things bouce off my glasses while at school
  • Wear gloves while working with a rotary tool (drill, grinder, etc) because if the tool grabs the glove then your hand will be pulled into the tool. Although, thin latex/neoprene gloves are fine if you NEED them I guess, I wear them because the skin on my hands are messed up

Stories
Respiratory protection
Safety is srs business, my teacher was young, around 35, but he couldn’t be around us when we were spraying primers or clears, we even had a different teacher for the painting module due to this, because when he was working in the industry (painter) he did not use fresh air respirators since they weren’t mandatory (I believe they still aren’t unfortunately) and the hardeners in the primers and clears gave him asthma. One day he could barely breath because some student was spraying clear outside of a booth and he had to leave the shop for a bit.

Legally shops don’t have to make their employees wear a dust masks when sanding but my teacher did. When we switched teachers for a different module I stopped sporting a dust mask, it was a wonderful feeling to sneeze into a Kleenex and have it be all black. Not to mention having my mouth taste like chalk and having my nose/throat burn when breathing. Didn’t matter whether I was sanding, grinding or cutting a lot of metal or sanding body filler, paint or even wood at home. The only time it’s safe to forget the mask IMO is when you’re wet sanding. Otherwise, why not always have it on? If it’s getting too hot just take a break.

Use tools only for their intended purpose
An old student, who was in heavy vehicle mechanics, was working under his parents RV and had it raised with only a jack and used some wood as stands. Yeah stupid, but a lot of people work under their cars with only jacks thinking that if it can lift their car then in can support it. Of course, the RV fell on him and he died. (For those of you that don’t know, for working under cars there are two things you need, a hydraulic jakcs and stands. Hydraulic jacks are only used to lift the vehicle to where you can put stands underneath. They are not made to support the weight of a vehicle over an extended period of time.)

Another old student, while at school, was preparing a bumper for paint and after washing it we need to use a silicone and wax remover which is a very flammable substance. Maybe there was none left, maybe he was too lazy or maybe he just didn’t realize but he ended up using silicone and wax remover for metal instead of the one for plastics. Seems harmless, maybe just the paint won’t apply right? The static build up from rubbing the solvent on the bumper caused it to ignite and lit his hand on fire. It was a high temperature chemical fire, the one that burns colorless.

Stay concentrated and don’t get distracted
In high school, there was a student in previous years who was using the jigsaw. His friend started talking to him and he turned around to talk back, two of his fingers were cut off for that second of not paying attention.

Gloves
I worked as a jockey at Discount Car Rentals for a year about two years ago. Washing cars was my main job and I never wore gloves while doing it, I never put my hands in the soap or anything but I did use soapy rags to wipe down the interiors. My problems started about three months in, my fingertips were very dried out so I thought it was the water and started putting cream. About 2-3 months later the back of my fingers were becoming very itchy I thought it was the dirt so I washed them all the time. About 2-3 months after THAT, the skin on the back of my hands started breaking down and it looked like I had a disease and no matter what I did it would not go away. The back of my fingers would leak puss and all kinds of nasty shit. My brother got the same thing from working behind the meat counter at a grocery store, it was the soap they used to clean the machines. He went to the doctor and got Cortisone, I think, 3 years later for him using that cream and 2 years later for me using cream and although it’s subdued (not visible anymore) our fingers are still itchy and we know that it will come back on a whim (working too long with neoprene/latex gloves or using solvents without gloves sets mine off pretty easily). Other people I worked with at Discount started getting the initial dry fingertips after about a year but they stopped washing cars for a bit because they knew from me what would happen. Although I got it faster, this is something that can happen to a lot of people, just for using soap without gloves.

Sorry for the long post, but: ?The more you know?. Although I’ve gotten some shitty deals, IMO my skin problem is the worst because it makes it hard to do what I like (painting), I’ve never had a power tool injury and intend to keep it that way. I’m a wuss and I’m scared of all my tools, that’s what keeps me from making stupid decisions because if I ever think something isn’t right or safe then I don’t bother trying because I’m scared shitless of getting injured.

85

if you don’t have the space for a drill press, try out one of these with a hand drill depth setter/ drill guide.

i drill my holes the same way kaytrim does (3 stages, but with a 24mm hole saw and a 1 1/4 (i think) spade bit. but that drill guide has a bolt on the rails that sets the depth you can drill to and it keeps your bit perfectly straight. $30 well spent imo.

86

One other note on gloves and clothing in general. When using power tools DO NOT wear gloves. The glove could get caught in the spinning blade or bit and pull your hand into harms way. This also applies to loose fitting baggy clothing. If you were to see me in the shop I would be wearing a comfortable but not loose T-Shirt, jeans and sneakers. No shorts, No hiphuggers, No baggy sweats, No open shoes, Nor sandals.

If I had been wearing gloves when I had my drill press accident I may have lost my thumb or worse. As it is I got off lucky with just a split thumbnail.

Have fun in the shop but be safe. If you don’t work safely you may not have anymore fun in the shop.

Michael

87

so i’m about to start my first real case in a few weeks so i’m giving this thread and slagcoin a read-though to figure out what i need. i see that a lot of folks dont own the tools needed to build a stick and have been asking where they could find a place to use a woodshop or rent tools. for some reason it took me about a week of searching off and on to find www.sunbeltrentals.com from what i see they have reasonable daily rates ($13 a day for a jigsaw, the same for a router, and $21 a day for a small drill press) and they’re in most states. i live in a small city outside of atlanta and i actually have one about 15 minutes away from my house.

just thought i’d give back what i could for all the wiring help i’ve gotten in the last few days. hopes this helps a few people.

88

im going to try this one out first. Just bought this from Ebay and still $30 bucks:lovin:

89

These are good places if you are only going to use a tool one time and for a day or two. If you feel that you’ll want to hang on to the tools for a few days or rent on several occasions you would be better off setting aside the money you would be spending on rental fees. Once you have saved up enough buy the tool. Also look at your local craigslist. In most larger cities people are selling used tools all the time.

90

I forgot about clothing, gloves are a never for power tools but yes you are right, loose clothing is bad as well. Just pay attention and be careful and you’ll be fine. Even though I’m scared of all the tools I really enjoy painting and doing automotive bodywork.

Just remember everyone, being safe does not mean being boring :tup:

I guess I have some tips for you guys. I don’t know how many of you use body filler on wood but it has its uses :slight_smile:

Body Filler
What you need:

  • Body filler
  • Hardener
  • Disposable stick to mix the body filler in the can and to scoop the body filler out of it’s can
  • Sanding block
  • 80 grit and 180 grit sandpaper
  • Onion pad (disposable sheets for mixing body filler, like $15 for 100) or plastic mixing pad
  • The spatula thing (plastic mixer / squeegee / applicator)
  • Can of guide coat (a thin coat of powdery black paint that allows you to see spots that are missing sanding)

Notes before beginning

  • You will need more than one coat most of the time
  • Do not mix a lot, it begins to harden quickly and you will have to make a second batch anyways
  • Do not mix it on cardboard
  • Do not get it wet, even when it is dry
  • Onion pad > plastic mixing board, no clean up because you can just throw the sheet of paper in the garbage when it is dry

Preparation

  • Can’t believe I forgot this … clean the surface! Wipe it down with a dry cloth and/or blow it with compressed air. Don’t use any products or water because they might absord into the wood and cause problems
  • Sand the main area to receive body filler plus about 2-3 inches all around with at least 80 grit, no smoother
  • Then sand another 2-3 inches on top of that with 180 grit (you can overlap the 80 it’s okay). We want the body filler to stick and it needs a rough surface to do so, you’re going to be filling it anyways so it doesn’t matter how rough it is. You can even use a grinder (probably not a good idea on wood though :P) as long as you sand out the edges with 80 and 180 grit papers.
  • Can’t believe I forgot this x2 … clean the surface! No products (no soaps, no special cleaning sprays, nada)! Use compressed air to blow off sanding residue

Application

  • Apply as thick and smooth a layer as possible extending just to the end of the 180 grit sanding (doesn’t need to cover all the 180 grit as long as it covers the 80 grit, primer will fill the 180)
  • Try to build up a layer at the gap/dip you want to fill
  • Don’t put a lot of pressure on the applicator (the plastic squeegee thing), try to hold it at a low angle to the surface (almost parallel), it is similar to the way you mixed it with wiping it (same motions but slower, less pressure and a bit smoother)

Mixing

  • Mix the ratios properly, you might want it to dry faster but putting too much hardener will make it absorb some of the pigments in your paint and the paint will not be the same colour throughout. The amount you want to use is one line across your body filler. Say this is your body filler: ( ) then your hardener will be the dash in the middle: (-). Just put one line from one side to the other, less is better in this case so if you feel like you didn’t put enough, then don’t go back and put more :slight_smile:
  • The actual mixing technique is shown in a lot of videos, this is an excellent video (just don’t use this much hardener) : http://www.expertvillage.com/video/43119_car-restoration-mix-filler.htm You have to wipe/squeeze the body filler until there are no more hardener streaks left (there must be no streaks left otherwise some sections will harden differently making them sand differently).

Sanding

  • 80 grit sandpaper and a solid sanding block are what you need. 80 grit sandpaper might seem rough, but you want the body filler to be flat and the 80 grit will cut the edges. It will be very hard to get it perfect with smoother papers
  • The motion you do when sanding should be diagonal across the body filler and try alternating to get an X pattern with long strokes. Sanding straight up/down and forward/back might follow the bumps more (X is more useful for pieces that are a bit more curvy than flat, but I recommend it anyways)
  • If you’re filling a gap, then you want the edges of the body filler to be “cloudy”.
    http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/bumpers/body-filler.jpg shows a good amount of sanding of the body filler on the side that is facing the camera (not the side with the holes). That is how you want the edge of the body filler to mix with the base material
  • Try to get it flat with good edges but don’t remove anymore, you need some material left over to sand with 180 grit
  • Check the surface with your hand (see below)
  • Spray a coat of guide coat
  • Sand with 180 grit sandpaper until all the guide coat is gone (this means all the 80 grit sanding marks have been removed)

Checking the surface

  • Do this before you sand the coat with 180 grit
  • If you are right handed, stand to the left of the area and put your hand completely flat over the workpiece and run it back and forth
  • Any raises/dips/edges you feel WILL show up in paint so apply a second coat of body filler and try to fix it

Applying a another coat

  • Apply this coat before you sand the previous coat with 180 grit sandpaper
  • Clean the same as in the preparation before applying further coats
  • Apply it beyond the previous coat, you want it to cover the previous coat completely because you don’t want to touch the previous coat again (it may sand at a different rate than the new coat because of different hardener amounts)

Adding in a tip:

Also, at then end of this, everything must be the shape you want it. You need to fix the shape with body filler nothing added afterwards will help (finishing body filler will note help either).

I will try to post finishing body filler and primer stuff tommorow.

BTW Kaytrim, really happy to see you posting in this thread. I love your cases and to have you talk about your tools and methods is great. I wish more case makers would participate in this thread but I guess a lot of people are still busy.

91

Kaytrim, how did you get the woodgrain into the buttons like that?? Sweet stick btw, I love maple too.

92

scan a piece of wood, print a cut em out?

perhaps some veneer?

93

Yeah I suppose that could work.

94

WOW! I just saw the pics of the stick (had a filter on my other station) That is one of the nicest maple sticks I’ve ever seen. Great work Kaytrim :slight_smile:

95

Michael,
I know this is off topic, but i really like your drill press table, never thought of using the rockler cam clamps like that.

96

DING, DING, DING. Yes I cut my own veneer with my little benchtop bandsaw. It is a premium option for my customers. I also did the top and dust cover.

Thanks this was my first curly maple stick too.

No it isn’t off topic. It is all woodworking related information. You can get those T-Clamps at Harbor Freight for cheaper than at Rockler. I paid something like $2-$3 each at HF. The cam clamps I haven’t found anywhere than at Rockler or Woodcraft though. That little fence system holds the panel in place rock solid too though it is a pain to adjust between holes.

Michael

97

Thumbs up to Kaytrim’s Kustoms

98

oh geez I’ve been paying $10 for them at rockler all this time…

99

Forstner

Hey guys, let me ask you something. Where do you go for quality metric forstner bits? I have been using Fisch bits up untill now and they have served me very well, but my 30mm has been abused to the point its too dull for plexi. Where can I get a good bit from for a reasonable price, I don’t want a shitty bit like a CMT or worse, I need something good.

100

Stick with the CMT bits. MDF is murder on cutting edges. Read back a few pages on my post about bits. You need to be diligent about sharpening these if you want them to last. I sharpen mine about every 5-10 cases. As far as plexi I also talk about it above. Use a spade bit with teeth.

TTFN
Michael