Goh will probably be very good in vf5. When new characters are introduced, AM2 tries to err on the side of ‘too weak’ rather than ‘too strong’. See Aoi from vf3 -> vf4, or Brad from Evo -> FT.
That’s what I’m thinking cygnus but I was still surprised not to see Goh get a significant boost in FT, at least not to the same extent that Brad did. I know Brad’s inability to compete in VF4:E was, relatively speaking, easier to solve than Goh’s but still… it was disappointing.
Anyone got a mirror for that video?
As a fellow Goh player I feel your pain. But to say all his sabakis suck is false IMO.
His mid punch sabaki gives him a free throw (in the proper stance) and his low punch sabaki can be followed by his launcher in Evo. His general punch sabaki into clutch does need some guess work for damage though. In FT, his mid punch sabaki gives him a throw for free in either stance, his kick sabaki now crumples when it catches attacks(a + in my book) and the low punch sabaki gives a shorter recovery(no launcher:tdown: ) but he can followup with his new 3-hit combo (if you can get the command off properly:rolleyes: ) His knee sabaki granted is terrible, its very slow by itself and knee attacks outside of Jeffry and Wolf are pretty rare to consider catching.
My beef with Goh is his lack of guaranteed damage: 1. His launcher is very slow. 2. His clutch grab doesn’t guarantee damage because they can break the hold if they know which way you drag them. 3. His low throws are easy to escape 4. Very good strugglers can get out of his shoulder ram mixup. 5. His ground throws are 50/50. 6. His hit-throws need a counter hit.
While we are at it, I’m hoping he gets better and more attack strings in VF5 a well.
I’m also hoping that they can give him a nice boost, because as much as I loved using him, I had to go back to Wolf if I wanted to compete with everyone else.
Sorry Shag, I should have made it clear. It’s not that Goh’s sabakis don’t suck, it’s more that he has too many of them and individually they don’t cover enough options IMO (I’m talking about Evo, btw).
For example, his P+K sabaki would be great but given the only thing you can lead into off a successful sabaki is his catch throw, you’re not getting guaranteed damage for what’s a pretty big risk. Given that the sabaki doesn’t actually ‘hit’ in the same way that, say, Pai’s high punch sabaki does either, it’s not like you can casually work it into an attack string or whatever. So why not get rid of his mid punch sabaki and make P+K a high AND mid punch sabaki, to justify the fact you’re not even getting guaranteed damage out of it? That’s what I’m getting at - trim down his sabaki options and make the potentially useful ones… well, useful.
One thing Goh definitely needs is another low throw. Everyone tries to throw escape the neckbreaker, because they’ll know if you go for the catch hold, they’ll have their chance to escape that later. Again, it’s the guaranteed damage thing you mentioned. If there were at least two low throw directions that gave guaranteed damage, it would make life much easier.
A decent circular move wouldn’t hurt him either.
You mean b, t+K? Didn’t it do this on Evo? IIRC it crumpled on counter-hit, which is what it would do if it caught an attack anyway, right? I’m probably not remembering things right… I need to start playing Goh again, refresh my memory.
As for strugglers getting out of shoulder ram mix-up, what about shoulder ram > dash > throw? My tactics are probably way off because I haven’t touched Goh in ages but I remember using that on strugglers. And if they try to attack after recovering from the struggle to stop the throw, then shoulder ram > shoulder ram > whatever.
Same here. Really love Goh’s fighting style but I had to stick with Pai to get results.
I didn’t think VF4 matched up well against Tekken 4. Hopefully Sega pulls out all the stops for VF5. I like the VF series I’ve played it since the 32X days. Vanessa Lewis was a nice addition to the VF character roster but she looked terrible on VF4 as did Sarah Bryant. I’m probably the only one who thinks so though.
Anyway HORRAY FOR VF5!
yeah tk4 was way too good, way better than vf4
just like dhalsim and balrog are useless in st right
I coulda sworn we told you before about posting before you think.
bannination?
I’m kinda worried about the loss of air juggles though…I hope they add a bunch of new ground chains to make up for it…
…seriously.
Making stupid posts is not a good enough reason to ban.
Although in some cases it should be~
What I don’t get is how this new combo system (if it is ground based and all) will differentiate between ‘heavy’ and ‘light’ characters without air juggles. Part of the appeal of VF is having this memory bank of combos for each character you face and knowing what the most damaging ones are. I don’t see how that would work if the combos were ground based only. Unless VF is going for uber-realism and taking out combos altogether? :xeye:
…seriously.
The no air juggle thing is just a rumor that has kind of grown from speculation. I mean it may be true, knowing AM2 always tries to be innovative, but there’s no reason to believe it’s true really.
VVVVVVVV
It would be cool, that is if it somehow kept the intricacy that the juggle system has now. Personally I think they are doing new stuff with the evasion system.
Maybe the smaller characters take more time to recover than the heavy characters with some hits that would’ve normally knocked them into the air. I say getting rid of air juggles is the way to go, but whatever.
I think getting rid of juggles helps realism…but I dunno about gameplay.
What next, you have to input a specific command to block? I mean, realistically you can’t block all high attacks by just holding your arm up. You have to deflect them 1 by 1. Should they get rid of block and instititute parries only?
Or what about Kage’s ridiculous leaps? Those can’t be realistic…
Oh well, gotta have faith. If anyone can do it, it’s AM2…
…seriously.
Saotome Kaneda, you live in 29 Palms? I used to live there, by the monument entrance, haha. Semper Fi.
O yea, back to subject. Maybe this combo system will be like Soul Calibur 3 stun system. Like Lau hits the opponent with a certain stun (say there is a choice of them failling straight down, to the left or right or falling back) and from there, the player has to choose a Lau move that will hit where they are falling, then the branching continues. I don’t, just throwing stuff out there.
VF5 looks hot, I can’t wait.
Dude…T4 is heralded as the worst Tekken game ever. VF4 was definitely the best VF game yet. It pretty much revolutionized the way people played fighting games with its character custimization and training mode that actually trains you to be competitive in the game. Not to mention the Kumite/Quest mode.
All other 3d fighters now are pretty much taking suit. T4 was just another Tekken game with fully environmental backgrounds. Which has already been done better in DOA (a game that people otherwise dog on). They hella toned down the juggling system which Tekken has always been known for and tried to change the game up way too much for it’s own good.
I’m just here for schools again. If you were messing around on base in Spring-Fall 2001, you probably saw me the first time I was out here. Small world, small Corps, they say.
And I think I’m the only one that wants Taka-Arashi back. I’m fairly sure they can get him done right this time.
Yeah, that’s true. I felt the same way as you until I realized unlike other character’s successful sabakis they can get about 30 of extra damage. With some of Goh’s sabakis he can “potentially” land 60-70 points damage.
The fact that they are so specific means you need good yomi to use them effectively. But if you can make them work, the reward is there.
P+K sabaki does deflect high and mid punches. One successfull drag can get you 20-50 points of damage. Two successful drags could earn 35-70. :df: P+K is an attack by itself which if it catches an elbow or mid punch can land a 40-70 throw.
Agreed, if he doesn’t get a new one in VF5 I’m going to curse at Sega so bad.
K+G is full circular, yah its slow but it will hit evaders. The followup punch sucks in Evo, a person can hit you before it comes out even if you hit with the kick. :r::r:K+G is half circular and can get the leg throw if it touches on hit or block. His back kick, sweep and low-kick hit-throw are half circular too.
Counter hits are attacks that hit while a person is about to do a move. Sabakis are attacks/reversals that also have deflecting properties when the opponents attack is about to strike. :l::r:+K in Evo crumples on counter-hit but not on sabaki. In FT it crumbles on sabaki only which I prefer because the move is slow. He gained a new kick in FT that crumples on counter-hit that is faster than his back kick and has about the same range.:tup:
You have 2 main followups after you hit the shrm: :l::r:+p combo or dash>throw. The punch combo is technically fastest and safest. They wont have time to avoid it (unless they didn’t struggle at ALL) It takes a little bit more frames to dash in and go for a high damage throw. This works on average to good players. A great player will recover in time to try to escape the dash>throw or use a quick punch but will lose to an elbow or another shrm. An expert player can struggle really fast to block the punch and fuzzy guard the dash>throw attempt or any other attack. CPU Sentinel and above rank characters can do this. Expert strugglers can also avoid the ground throw attempt on his :df::df: throw.
Trust me, you are not the only one.:sad:
Does the Kumite mode on VF4 ever end or do you play until you quit?