have you seen wolverine in earlier games?
Because it’s true?
The only time you get hit out of XF is if a) you double-tapped it (which means you get a dash and you die) or b) you tried to do something coming out of XF and it lost.
This is one of the smarter posts so far. One of the things that really sets DPx apart is her ability to avoid entry mix ups if she has 5 bars. Hell, she would actually be balanced if the dark phoenix rises thingy either
- Did not blow people away, but was still invincible and made her immune to grabs until she lands: This would mean that people could have one(or 2-3 depending on their teams) opportunities to mix her up before she went into lol BBQ wtf hur hur drop ya controller bro mode
- Still blew people away and is unblockable, but she could not act until she landed. She would also be invincible until she landed: This would encourage smart Jean killing(O_O, people thinking in Mahveeeel), and give an opportunity to mix her up if you manage to kill her somewhere where the explosion can’t reach you.
This would also encourage phoenix players to try to play her as second backed up by a protective assist to help survive the mix up and would cause her to use more XF2, as the risk associated with going for XF3 would be much greater. In short, it would encourage smarter play by everyone.
But noooo, Capcom decided to do some dumb stuff which will not change how silly DPx will be in XF3.
At least they nerfed the optimal batteries for her in Dante or Wesker/Haggar or Tron, so she’ll be harder to get out.
But now Tron is useless, and haggar is barley okay, dunno how they’re gonna fix those two now.
There are three kind of ways people view phoenix
Totally op
Very strong
And not op at all.
Most who think she’s just the most op thing ever are bad. She’s really not. However xfactor just makes things dumb. Dark Phoenix would die to many things if they would just allow her to take chip damage while xfactor or remove the insane speed buff and damage boost(which isn’t needed)
Unless more changes are made to Phoenix she is gonna be really bad in umvc3. 1 air action is a serious nerf.
why would you not count x-factor if every character can use it?
weird logic.
Yeah the air action nerf will make her way more susceptible to snap kills. She’s definitely going to be more of a “low tier/high tier” character now that most of the cast can pick her down from a snap instead of worrying about 2 and 3 fireballs ruining the time you need to mix her up. She gets one air fireball on a snap and then has to deal with a bunch of shit. I think what they are trying to do is change her so everyone can kill her off a snap and not just very specific characters like it should have been.
However if you kill off her other members and she gets the 5 unless they tone down her XF3 strength, Dark Phoenix is still going to whoop everybody except Akuma/Dorm/Skrull/Task and maybe Spencer. DP will still have the power to whoop down an entire team with the laser lines if one dies.
The 1-air-action-limit is a Phoenix nerf, not really a DPh nerf. The only thing it impacts are snap-Phoenix-in strategies, which (in case you’ve forgotten) just got a lot worse with zerker-slash nerf and Magneto-spaz nerf.
On a related note: has anyone confirmed that you cannot fly after air nova?
You got no idea how any of the new characters are going to function. Phoenix is already getting wrecked in UMvC3.
Long as they don’t tone down her XF3 DP too much that will still wreck most of the cast free. She didn’t need H shots to burn through a team in XF3 DP as was clearly evident at Evo. It doesn’t matter how any of the new characters are going to function since Phoenix’s ability is mostly based on her meter any way unless she’s out on point. When she’s sitting in reserve she’s only as strong as the snap in mix ups she doesn’t die to.
If anything it’ll probably be more of a “High tier/ S tier” thing when it comes to Phoenix vs. DPh.
Play her on point with a lock down assist like doom and you got something fierce. Just like Zero can play to not get hit she can too. I’ve fooled around with the set-up and restricted myself to only one shot per jump with more use of grounded TK shots and the lock down/ mix up potential is definitely there.
Couple that with derper slash invincibility nerf and really you have nothing to worry about besides akuma tatsu assist.
TACs remove meter, there is a lot of meter removing abilities now.
Capcom even knows Phoenix right now is silly. At Evo seth made the comment “Capcom is excited every time phoenix dies.”.
Yeah it’s basically the better a Phoenix teams does from the start the more options you they get with her. Phoenix teams always have the advantage when they do well early because it brings them that much closer to getting a 4 character team while you’re left with 2 or 1.
Plus you could get around the TK shot nerf in a sense by TKing the TK shot so you get an airborne TK shot with less recovery so you can still spam up 2 or 3 shots on the screen. The limit is only in her actions and as long as they didn’t limit the amount of H shots she can physically get on the screen TKing H shots will probably still allow you to flood the screen with H shots even if you’re if you have to be in a bit more vulnerable of a spot.
That doesn’t consider all of the changes done to TAC though. On the first hand any self respecting Phoenix player is going to be mashing on forward to keep you from building meter against their team any way. They don’t care of you build meter or do an up tag, that’s giving them meter either way. On the second hand they’ve also added in a new post TAC escape system. You flash a different color after the tag depending on which tag they did and that gives you an extra window to escape after the tag flash. Which means people will learn to visually react to which tag was used after the flash. You know Phoenix teams are going to be learning the timing and colors like day one of Ultimate.
Unless they give everyone a move that steals meter from a character or something most of Phoenix’s nerf so far is that everyone can pick her apart easier on the snap in now. Once she gets 5 meters she knows she gets to do just dick around as long as she’s alive. We’ll see what else comes up towards the release of Ultimate but so far I haven’t heard anything that will stop her from being a dominating force in the game as long as she gets the 5 outside of the snap backs being easier to set up on her.
Can’t she just Shot, Fly, Shot anyway?
Didn’t he say that as Dark Phoenix was rising? I swear I remember him saying that as someone turned into D.ph
Well I heard it was just one action period. Not sure if she’ll be able to do that.
You realize UP TAC makes people do MORE damage right?
KOing Phoenix’s partners incredibly fast is going to be even more of an option in UMvC3 as well.
Truth…
Phoenix by herself is really good, and adding DP into the situation doesn’t help. Building 5 bars in MvC3 is a joke, considering that you have a two character buffer window for that time. Her air H fireballs last so long in the air it’s ridiculous, and when XF is involved, usually level 3, the chip is scary. She has the easy mode touch of death when she’s XF, considering her jabs provide feathers…which also chip a fuck ton. One of the things I get most pissed off about Phoenix, is knowing that (in metagame) my character(s) is/are going to take a massive amount of chip damage, assuming they’re able to not get hit by Phoenix’s ridiculous mix up game. At least with wolverine I can easily tell if I’m going to get crossed up or not in time
Except X-factor activation while you’re just standing around has around 4-6 frames of recovery. It’s only completely instant when canceling out of guard stun.
No one ever seems to realize that it’s also a stacking multiplier that lasts until the end of the combo. Everyone seems to think that the up tag itself hits hard, and not that there’s a multiplier at all.
No, Flight must be the first action, or say hello to double typhoon style recovery. And her flight is slow, and short, so you get enough time for Flight, Shot, Teleport, and that’s it.
Capcom often OVERnerfs, it’s just what they do. See AE Guile. I dont even play MvC3 but I think they may overnerf her.
Good thread.
The more damage thing is relative since you’re supposed to die when you get hit any way. If someone is playing Wesker/Haggar/Phoenix I’ll be able to kill Wesker without TAC any way. Not gonna waste my time with that bullshit.
All the good characters are losing health any way so when you get hit that’s all relative. PLUS again…a Phoenix player will now be able to see that you did an up tag and counter it. There’s no sneaking in TAC’s anymore. They’re going to be practically gimmicks now. Good players are going to learn to react to the color codes and get out.
TAC’s are effectively done in UMVC3 IMO as long as that window to escape is long enough to be done on reaction there’s no point to do it anymore IMO. You might be able to sneak them in the on the internet at best.