edit: to be completely clear, nowhere in this post am i talking about quickrolling.
Ok just for instance so we can clear this all up.
By framestepping I can verify.
Dudley’s throw and SAIII have a ‘soft’ knockdown. Which for Twelve is 17f settling down, then 15f lying there. 32f before he begins to stand.
Dudley’s low roundhouse causes a ‘slam’ knockdown. For Twelve that is 25f settling down, then 15 lying there. 40f before he begins to stand.
19f more before he is full active again in both cases.
that’s a difference of 8f. and SAIII is a soft knockdown which is NOT what you see on ESN’s site.
Let me just add that from looking at a few other things like Ryu and Necro, there are many little differences and several different kinds of knockdown/wakeup animation which changes the timing. Necro has a different wakeup speed if he’s swept, if he’s thrown by ryu, if he’s shoryu’d by ryu, etc. Also did ryu ryu and from what I can tell there are at least 3 different knockdowns/wakeups since the game sees it as all one thing, even if we separate them, they aren’t. there may be 3 + 2 orientations since ryu’s forward throw flips them over and causes the longest knockdown i’ve seen so far. it’s possible there is a shorter flipped over knockdown also.
I’d like to catalog all of these things and compile them for my dossiers but that’ll be a while. Just know there is quite a variety.
I doubt all of that was intentional by the developers. It reminds me of ST and having totally random properties where sometimes you get a combo and sometimes you don’t and sometimes one combo does stun and sometimes it doesn’t and etc. 3S is just more consistent then that.
the nitty gritty knowledge is pretty important and I’m glad you guys (ESN/Tebbo/telesniper/everyone else who has ever done stuff) are looking into it and nailing it all down.
I don’t have the greatest imagination for this stuff so all the real world uses I can think of are pretty straightforward, like “after what kinds of knockdown and on which characters can Ken dash up and cover their wakeup clean” or stuff like that. but I bet there’s an undiscovered country of knowledge to put to use.
for me personally nothing i’m not so much interesting in any specific use. i just like finding all the differences and subtleties in the game and having a better overall understanding of what’s going on and why things work how they work.
there’s also different knockdown animations for sweeps if the other guy dashes while getting swept. sweeping a forward dash has a longer knockdown time than a back dash.
yeah that’s another one i forgot to mention here. then there’s slam which is usually from stuff that leaves the character higher in the air, normal sweep type knockdown, and then another weird one which so far i’ve only seen with ryu’s forward throw. it has a little hit effect as they hit the ground.
slam is usually the longest knockdown, normal sweep the shortest. ryu’s throw vs necro took longer for necro to recover from than a super knockdown lol. also twelve’s throw is a slam, dudley’s is not, etc.
it’ll take a while to go through everyone and then go through another time to try every character vs every other character to see any unique things that might exist. like the knockdown type for ryu’s forward throw. which is a really long knockdown/wakeup for necro for some reason.
IIRC, the situation i used to collect wakeup/QR data is char being (LP) srk-ed (by Gouki).
Didn’t really know about those differences, though they immediately feel right while thinking about certain situations.
first blue column is about WU/QR time for what Tebbo called “sweep knockdown”
2nd is for certains throws (pretty much no diff with the column before, except for Urien and Makoto, weird)
3rd is about SA and specials
So, I only collected the 3rd column data, but in a different way than them as i got some pretty big differences. Wonder what they used as protocol as i’m quite confident on mine (directly based on game RAM data).
oh yeah i hadnt seen that page before ESN. just looking at the numbers that seems like the time from the moment they hit the ground to when they begin to stand. because I got similar stuff for twelve off corkscrew blow which is NOT treated like a ‘normal’ SA knockdown. So Deemo you just picked a really bizarre example without knowing it lol.
A lot of the data i’ve been using is from game restaurant. it helps to know some kanji + all kana + some of the language.
I’m trying to collect all relevant information and also dig out anything extra I can find or calculate myself.
Like i’ve been working on figuring out average stun coefficient per character normal damage. totally useless bit of info but pretty cool when you chart it all out. I’ve made rankings for all sorts of categories about each character. Soon I’ll post an example up in my thread.
That old zweifuss site rip of 3s sprites even had the “twist” or “slam” knockdowns and defensive styled, being attacked, sprites like that. Always thought it was interesting. And because it was always unfinished, like Oro was missing a lot of stuff on offense anyway, there was that right there to look at instead.
should’ve made the other topic cake like Homer simpson/Maggie “for you to mess up, right over there!”