UOH can be negative edged.
Cool stuff, and didnât feel too hard from what I tested for about 10 minutes. Definetly can find uses for this.
if you can really do that you should be hanging with kuroda.
Who says I arenât? 
Me.
Spoilsport 
Is there a place in internet land lists invincibility frames for moves for this game?
So I have a question about cancelling. Moves that can be cancelled, often times are negative frames on block (or hit) by themselves. If someone does cancel a move, what exactly does this do to the frames of the move they cancelled into? For example, if Kenâs low forward is -2 on hit, and the move being cancelled into obviously has startup frames, how could it be possible to combo off of it?
More importantly, what if one of these âunsafeâ cancellable moves is parried? Iâve played this game enough to know that sometimes parrying a move will actually get you in more trouble because opponents can cancel off of their own move that got parried, but I donât understand why this works. An obvious example of this would be, lets say I low parry Kenâs c.mk, then I try to punish it, but I end up getting hit by SAIII that the Ken player cancelled into on reaction to getting parried. I believe this is referred to as an âokey dokeâ but by studying frame data, I canât understand why this works. Allegedly, if I parry a medium strength move, (low forward) Ken is at -3 frames, and Shippu Jinraikyaku has 2 frames of startup so that should put me, as the parrying player at +5, more than enough time to punish. Unless my execution time is just off, every single time this has ever happened, and my opponentâs was perfect, I donât understand why this works. Additionally, if parrying a medium will give you +3 you could throw your opponent every time (depending on range) but Iâve rarely had this work in a situation like this either. Chun-Li gets away with this tactic as well, but her SAII is 3 frames on startup, nevertheless, if I parry a low forward, I should be at +6, meaning I could interrupt her super in startup frames (I seem to recall having done this, but not consistently, Kenâs seems to beat me every time.)
since theyâre cancelling their normal into a special/super they have no recovery frames from the normal. itâs as if they just cancelled from their normal to special/super. maybe you get the +frames depending on what kind of normal but that would be all. so if you go for any like 4-6 startup move after you parry youâll get hit by their cancelled special/super as long as its a relatively quick one or has invincibility (like q)
the best way to think about parry is just as a reset. it basically sets up another opportunity that has some different options and is possibly very advantageous for the parry-er (depending on what was parried). thatâs why sometimes its smart to parry and sometimes it isnât.
Add hitstun/blockstun to your formula.
Whatever move you cancelled into whatever other move, your opponent is either in hitstun or blockstun, meaning not able to do anything useful. So you got largely enough times to get your second move outâŚ
For your second §, having 0~4 frames of âfrozeâ advantage by being the parrier of something means you have stricly that amount of frames to do and commit a move/special/throw, before your opponent becomes able to commit a cancel. Thatâs kind of tight IMO.
And Tebbo is right. Parry is another option not a magical tool. Situations where something is garanteed after a parry are quite rare in the game.
oh cool I wasnât sure about the parry freeze in game count frames. I kind of thought maybe the parry freeze was sort of like the âhitâ freeze. like the effect where the game sort of pauses and lengthens the time you have to react but it doesnât lengthen the actual in-game time. Does that make sense?
so what youâre saying is when a parry happens the game isnât actually quite frozen, it progresses just a bit in that time (although the perceived time as a player is obviously much more than 4 frames). those 0~4 frames.
the end effect being basically the same as what I said. though I didnt know about those frames. thanks for the info!
Ok so I understand the part about cancelling automatically ending recovery frames and instantly going into startup for the new move. And as ESN noted, usually the other player will be in hitstun/blockstun (though exactly how much depends on when the cancel happened) so this is why these moves combo. Thanks for that information I didnât quite understand that before.
This is still a little confusing though. Iâm assuming you know that when a parry happens, both players freeze for 16 frames, but I know depending upon what you parry (light, medium, fierce, special/super) you as the parrier get different +frames. But are you saying that during the parry âfreezeâ both characters will appear come out of it at the same time, but the parrying player will get a few extra frames to buffer a move? In other words, if I parry a standing jab, I get 16 frames of âparry freezeâ and my opponent gets 20, but they end at the same time? If that is what youâre saying, that doesnât seem right. But If what youâre talking about is whether or not the match clock actually âfreezesâ as well, well then I honestly donât know. I guess I donât quite understand your wording.
The way I had been interpreting it was that I, as the parryer, get 16 frames of parry freeze, and my opponent gets 16 plus that 0~4 more, during which time he is still âfrozenâ and defenseless. I guess what my second question really was was: now that I know a cancel ends recovery frames, does a cancel also end âfrozenâ frames?
I realize that 4 frames is an insanely small amount of time, but at an extremely high level, it actually matters.
"Example of frame advantage: letâs say Chun parries Kenâs low Forward point blank. Chun is in parrystun for 16 frames and Ken is frozen for 19 frames. Because Chunâs low Jab has 2 frames of startup, Ken wonât be allowed to cancel to SA3 if Chun does the Jab at the earliest possible frame."
this old link doesnât appear to be working anymore so hereâs the new one for those that care The System Mechanics Thread
EDIT
damn, looks like i was just too late. sorry ESN, didnât see your post.
ok yeah so you do get those extra frames and thatâs it. thanks just wanted to make sure.
its not really that confusing. a cancel is a cancel, period. if something is cancelled it does not have to recover. what i said probably looks confusing because i was talking about another quality of the game over top of the parrying discussion and wondering if it had any part in how things worked possibly. more just wondering out loud then actually stating.
he already said all i needed to hear though and to know i had it correct to begin with.
those 0-4 frames can let you do some supers and shit yeah and some fast startup shoryu type moves. its very specific though and thatâs where knowledge comes in. knowing what can punish what is extremely important because you can recognize what you parried and know what will beat what without having to actively think. just react.
I noticed something probably known already. Or correct me if Iâm wrong.
If you dash and try to SRK with this input: 4423+P or if youâre not familiar with numberpad f,f,d,df+P
The SRK wonât come out you just get the button you pressed. You have do 44423 or f,f,f,d,df to do dash SRK.
I tried this a few times even dashing keep walking forward and finishing the SRK motion but it still didnât execute. Something about that 2nd forward doesnât count toward the forward for an SRK motion?
are you sure it isnt just the timing since dash is pretty long for any character with a shoryu. it most likely forgets the input by the time you are âfinishingâ the shoryu.
I dash shoryu like an asshole plenty and I know the timing isnât all at once. theres a somewhat long pause before you input the shoryu at the end of the dash.
If you hold forward and just walk full screen you can still input d,df and get shoryu. I canât do that holding the 2nd forward in the dash.
try it yourself
forward [hold], d, df + P
f, f [hold], d, df + P
f, f, f [hold] , d, df + P
1 and 3 work but 2 wonât.
All my dash Shoryuâs mostly end up as Hadoukens, even if I try to mash that shit. My input is mosty f,f~dp+p, and thatâs the thing I donât get, because I can dpm clean in this game, but not from dash apparently. Will have to try those methods.
dunno why itâs like that. ive never tried to do dash and hold into shoryu so I never thought about it.