thanks dude, I understand what you were saying about the sound cues. In general, the reason it works so well with lvl3’s is that, there’s a point where you can’t cancel the FA by dashing, so what you want to do is find the earliest point where if you’re charging the FA and you double tap forward or backward and he doesn’t dash cancel, and then, that’s the timing you want. with a lvl3, you get a shit ton of time to buffer in the dash and start charging, so you can do the motion a couple of frames after boxer recovers from the dash.
I was able to lvl2 fa, backdash into grounded U1. Also it seemed as if lp.ds hit the most since it’s the fastest. But with this technique, it’s possible to CH lvl1FA backdash into grounded U1. Pretty sick, and his lvl1 FA is kinda safe on block esp if he backdashes (-6), so this might make it a decent footsie tool up close. Also CH lvl1 FA has a lot of hit stop just the lvl3 (where both opponents seem to freeze in place), so that might also be why it’s much easier to buffer the charge when those connect.
Yup thats exactly what I said - Charge it until it becomes uncancelleable, dash motion whatever direction you want and gain some charge while he finishes the FA and maybe a little more after the dash if needed. Was hard to explain initially but after the training session it was pretty clear.
Glad to have provided something to chew on - Be good if you can wring some more info out of it all and see how useable it all is.
Also, as said, there are two ways to FA Dash into Ultra - You can use the regular, more common method for Lv2 FA’s, I just find the Lv3 much easier for obvious reasons but for Lv2 or maybe even Lv1 (CH) you’d really need to have had charge and use the original older motion to get the Ultra as you won’t get the same charge-time otherwise that you’re allowed from just letting loose a Lv3.
Once again, if you missed it, do check out the BiWeekly Movie I linked in the previous post - It’s all tool assisted but that plus any new information will surely be useable. The fact the tools allowed for EX Upper > CS.LK > EX Upper Loops, or continuous Crumples into 2xOH Crumples into L1 FA Backdash Ultra juggle shows it can all be done just requires some disgustingly godlike charging.
Also, the video I gave got a thumbs down already - Maybe from someone here who read my post asking for support - I really hope that isn’t the case but meh. I’ll leave it up for a while and maybe dump it at some stage.
Likely be quitting SF4 relatively soon anyways and nobody seems to like my SF4 vids so a cleanout is in order. If I can provide any other videos or help or if people want a visual example of things, feel free to post here and will provide if I can until I stop playing.
Keep up the good work and testing, I’ll be keeping an eye out for more developments
I made one last movie on the subject, mostly just as an excuse to mess with other characters (Seeing as I’m exclusively Balrog since '09 I have never played any other character seriously) but this L3 Charge thing has gotten me in the training room a lot lately.
I’d like to ask one simple question… I know it’s not overly useful, nor viable (L3 FA is risky so you’re unlikely to ever land one unless you’ve gotten a dizzy) but is this info common knowledge or relatively unknown (regarding the ‘extra’ charge time you can squeeze out of a L3 FA specifically?)
i think it’s relatively unknown, funny thing though, is that Balrog is probably the only charge character who can make good use of it (on block). I think this adds another footsie tool to his arsenal. Now if his FA had a bit more horizontal range scary. It also means that it’s harder for an opp to tell when Boxer loses his back-charge. It’s really easy to assume that if balrog dashes, he can’t headbutt or ex dash, but in this situation, you can still dash, hell if you’re bad ass you can do unthrowable ex.dashes, since you can up-back charge during the dashes recovery.
It’s got possibilities, but will anyone use it…maybe me.
Aye it was weird - I said I’d try other characters but I found myself completely unable to do anything more than B/F-Dash into Special/Super/Ultra on the rest, whereas Balrog can F/B-Dash into RU Loops that don’t require CMP or CJabs/CLK first, can F-Dash into Overhead (FA3+OH is quite nice in terms of Stun and is combo-able).
If you try this stuff out, I’d like to see you give this a shot:
FA3>FDash>OH FADC (FDash)>CS.RH>CMP>EX RU into CMP RU Combo - I bet that’d wrack up stun and look completely weird.
Thanks for the feedback as always 3nig, hope you can make more from this info than I can.
How many frames is Rogs ex.dash punch? When I go for my regular safe jumps some Rogs just do ex.dash to get out free and hit me out the air so I was just wondering if I need to adjust my safe jump in some way or if you just cant safe jump it, I’v been going for only cross-ups now so at least they don’t hit me but they still get out free which I don’t want. Not many Rogs I fight do this though most just block but it annoys me when I run into that one that does and it makes me feel like not jumping at all which leads me into playing footsies with my Viper which is a game I’m not gonna win.
well, rog’s ex.dash punches (and dash punches in general), have variable startup depending on how close you are. The only way you can safe jump an ex.dash punch and not get hit is to do it at max jump in distance. As you play viper, I’ve no clue what jumping normal or setup you can use to get a max distance normal (it for sure won’t be jumping roundhouse ).
Also, you can safe jump with j.roundhouse, and o/s burnkick (or ex.burn kick) as a cancel, and under certain situations that might beat a reversal ex.dash.
Well I think your mistaking startup with how long the move takes to reach me cause I’m pretty sure startup is always the same but anyway I get what your saying. Viper doesn’t have much range on her normal’s so I’m afraid my max range is still pretty close but I’ll hit the lab and see if my max range is enough lol, Thanks for the info I appreciate your help man.
i assure you, i mean literally, the startup changes depending on the opponents proximity. AFAIK the only characters who have variable startup depending on proximity are Balrog and Gouken. If you look at the dash punch frame data it has two numbers, one in square brackets, and one that’s not. The regular one, is the max startup for the dash punch, while the one in brackets is the minimum startup (e.g. point blank). I don’t have access to utub @ work, but there’s a section in my video on blockstrings that show the variable startup of hp.ds.
[media=youtube]3ZC9moVGt_4[/media]
Somewhere in there.
His super has only 1f of invincibility (and 3f startup), so it loses to meaty throws, but you can’t throw on reaction like with Dhalsim’s U1. If you do the following setup: fwd.throw, fwd.dash, j.hp, throw, and ryu does reversal super you’ll grab him out of it. It goes active as soon as throw does, so it wins. But throw has invincible animation once it connects (thus his ultra goes through you). This setup should also work on Dhalsim (i think he has 1-2f of invincibility and 12f startup), but you can do that one on reaction though. His U1 beat’s strike meaties, so safe jumps will trade with U1.
And is it true that EX Hadokens have a slightly slower startup? I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve thrown/dash-punched a guy just as he was flashing yellow.
The startup is the same, total duration is different. ex.hado has 40f total duration (non-ex has 45f total duration). I agree that ex seems easier to punish, and i think it’s because of animation cues, he turns yellow and it has a distinct sound during startup, versus non-ex which isn’t as striking.
Rogs’ crumple combos - Tried them against Abel, after Lvl3 FA, wanted cr MP into HB, but the moment the MP hit, Abel did a backflip and the HB whiffed.
Anyway I can circumvent this problem? Also happened with a few other cast members.
in regards to the v.2012 changes, with cr. :lp: cl.st. :hp: being a (1 frame?) frame trap, couldnt this be a real good setup for U2 since it has 1frame startup? just curious…
if you mean going cr.lp, cl.hp or cr.lp, U2 . Then yes, you can say it’s a frame trap, the only thing is that it announces itself with the screen freeze giving them time to hold up and not press a button.
A better frame trap for U2, would be a situation where you’re forcing them to make a decision to attempt to tech a throw or not. The threat of being thrown is what makes a frame trap work, e.g. you cr.hk, FADC.fwd, throw. The first time they will probably tech or attempt to tech (whether crouch-tech or stand-tech), so you do it again, but then you do a delayed U2 giving them an opportunity to attempt to tech and you can catch them when they can’t jump out of it.
I think cr.lp, U2 would be a useable frame trap if it had 1+0 frame startup and it had a bit more range so they can’t just walk out of range . This is just theory fighter though, i haven’t used it before, but in general if you’re going to frame trap/guess with anything that involves a screen freeze, delay it just a tad to give your opponent an opportunity to press a button and you’ll be 100% more successful. I have had experience with that; you do it too soon, and you’re good read gets thwarted by sf4 mechanics :[ since any button pressed during the freeze doesn’t count, except block (and charging of course).
edit: cr.lp, throw or cr.lp, U2 might be a much easier, less meter intensive frame trap as well…let us know if you have success with it?
).
. This is just theory fighter though, i haven’t used it before, but in general if you’re going to frame trap/guess with anything that involves a screen freeze, delay it just a tad to give your opponent an opportunity to press a button and you’ll be 100% more successful. I have had experience with that; you do it too soon, and you’re good read gets thwarted by sf4 mechanics :[ since any button pressed during the freeze doesn’t count, except block (and charging of course).