I wanted your guys opinion on this because I wanted to pose a story based question regarding Kage I’m interested to get peoples opinion on it. Who is the better vessel for the full demon god power of SnH Ryu with Kage or Akuma with Oni?
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Generally?
Neither.
The human body is a poor vessel for that power. At high levels it corrodes out the user.
Judging by the advances of Bison’s science, however? Undeniably, Ryu is the better choice as his body is able to withstand higher potential power.
Ryu’s potential > Akuma’s. Full stop.
Either way, the SnH is an inferior power source. In fact, I could make arguments that it’s clearly inferior not only to Mu (which is OBVIOUS) but also utterly inferior to Psycho Power.
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Akuma. IMHO storywise. I also like how they write Oni than Kage.
Only part I like Kage is his interaction script with Ryu.
Gameplay wise fun is Kage hands down compare to Oni.
Yet Kage > ERyu for gamewise and storywise in the future.
IMHO
By the way bro
@Bakf what was Capcom Japan interpretation to Kage?
Kage as a description given by others because of it’s visual features and unknown by name?
Or Is Kage a name of SNH spirit of Ryu not just a label given by others?
Thanks
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Although Kage is new and I prefer Ryu over Akuma, I’d say Oni is better. Ryu has more potential, but Oni is simply more interesting and appropriate to me as Kage seems like something made up at the last moment, while Akuma has actually been walking his “being human < beyond human < beyond demon < reach heaven” path the entire time.
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Necalli: “Devour-our-our…”
Necalli: “WHAT THE FUCK?”
Kage: “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!”
Necalli: “I thought I was supposed to be the true edge lord of this game!”
Kage: “Well, you’re wrong. Because, I am here. And, so is Gouki!”
Gouki: “Um…”
Cammy pops up
Cammy: “Alright. Give me all of your edgelords.”
Kage: “OH SHI- WHAT?!”
Gouki: “What did I do?”
Necalli: “… I’m used to this.”
Cammy uses Critical Art on all of them put together
///
Cammy: “I’m throwing you all in jail for disturbing the peace.”
Necalli: “So what else is new?”
Kage: “You can’t arrest a shadow!”
Cammy: “Don’t be stupid. What do you think I do for a living?”
Gouki: “…” sigh
Cammy throws them all in prison
///
Kage: “So what’s next?”
Bison and Urien appear
Urien: “You get your shit wrecked, that’s what! AEGIS REFLECTOR!”
Bison: “YES!”
Necalli: “NO!!!”
Kage: “NO WAY!!”
Bison: “Yes way.”
Bison and Urien beat the shit out of Necalli and Kage.
Bison: “…”
Urien: “…”
Gouki: “???”
Bison: “Crush this cretin.”
Urien: “AEGIS REFLECTOR!”
Gouki: “GAAH!!”
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Lore-wise, Ryu is the ultimate vessel for godly power.
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You don’t need to. The fact that “Ryu” is no longer in his name is the part that makes it clear.
The fact that there’s no pass leads me to suspect that there isn’t going to be 6 this year.
At this point, I think either we’re not getting one, or we’re getting it at the very end of SF5 after ALL the characters for the game are out.
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What it Gill’s power? Element???
Yet no one thought 'bout MK11/M11K…
SF6 could be under wraps
And still it leaded fuckton of people to misunderstand the character’s concept, actually i seen more peoples that got it wrong than right lol
It’s 50% fault of the name and 50 of the design
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People have been constantly crying for MK11 since the last E3 when people expected to see it announced.
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Ryu got higher ceiling potential
And beyond that he seem to just have the natural predisposition to pick up whatever path, and obtain relatively quickly decent results
Not a case Gouki, Gouken, Bison and Oro got interessed in him, despite them having chosen very different ways themselves all see in him the perfect candidate to be a successor
Lol probably even Rose could have teached him Soul Power if she wanted to (i doubt Soul Power is gender-locked as we seen females with PP), specially now that he purified himself
Is fun how Ryu even if is already one of the greatest fighters of SF world chosen “eternal disciple” approach to martial arts and he’s meeting so many “Masters” willing to teach him
My guess is post-Oro training Ryu will just be able both his MU and SnH side at wish
Just “removing” (ignoring actually) his red side it’s not a “better” or superior solution, that’s a western goodVSevil way to see it
But SF is’nt a western game
Oro will probably teach him that seal half of his ki for the only reason that he fear/reject it is’nt a solution, but rather a limit and a ceiling
Post-Oro Ryu will probably be more
Then i think last step, post-post-Oro Ryu, will be him realizing how empty and useless Oro “ascension” is.
He’s powerful af, yes
He extended his life of ??? years, yes
But it’s an empty af and useless existence
Maybe Ryu in the long run could become a Sennin reaching even higher heights than Oro… so what
I think there is when Ryu will embrace his responsibility and accept to become a Master
I also think Oro realized it himself, that’s why he took Ryu as student instead dedicate every remaining second of his life to try become some kind of “deity”…
Actually is pretty telling he moved his ass out of a cave in search of a worth disciple
Dude just realized that despite senjutsu effect on his longevity, death will still happen at the end, and his whole existence will be pointless
Irony is, Oro needs Ryu just as much Ryu needs him, if not more
Considering the martial arts concept Ryu incarnate, i doubt it will take him becoming a 140yo human-lemon in a cave to understand it lol
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Ryu’s final lesson will be love, after 140 years of being the eternal disciple he will finally realize that Sakura/Ken/Gouken’s Daughter were the one all along. But everyone is dead by then.
Except you know who.
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I want the SNH concept stays with Akuma and entirely separated to Ryu. IMHO.
Actually if you would think of it. Just another 2 season with 6 character each or making SFV to S6. Would already complete every fan favorite in the game that was in the poll.
Capcom need another title to Switch and take advantage of other titles, SF4 for switch with Nash, Sodom, Mika, Urien, Karin, Alex, Maki and Violent Ken. Along with a Tag mode like SFxT.
Well, I just have to make a Dean concept and I’ll have done one for each Final Fight protagonist.
Name: Carlos Miyamoto
Summary
Nickname: The Latin Ronin
Sex: Male
Ethnicity: Venezuelan (½ Japanese)
Height : 6ft 2in (1.89m)
Weight: 200lbs (91kg)
B/W/H: 46-35-36(117cm-89cm-91.5cm)
Hometown: Maracaibo, Venezuela
Appearance: Carlos has long flowing brown hair that hangs down his back to his waist. His eyes are brown. He wears a dark blue sleeveless denim vest that is unbuttoned. This leaves his arms and bare chest showing. He has black leather belt with a large silver colored buckle. Carlos wears dark blue denim pants. He has dark brown leather boots that are not quite knee length. Carlos has a katana in a black scabbard strapped to his back.
Likes: Maki, Collecting Swords, Tacos, Chili Beans
Dislikes : Sushi, Thugs
Fighting Style: Shorinji Kempo and Rindo-Kan Karate
Tone: Carlos is serious and to the point. It is rare sight to see him smile or tell a joke.
Origins: Carlos is the son of Niten Miyamoto and Marisol Bracho. His father moved to Venezuela to run the South American operations of Metro City Motors. His mother was the daughter of the head of the Empreza Petrolera Venezolana (Venezuelan Petroleum Company).
Carlos was a bit of an outcast growing up. The combination of his affluent parents and mixed parentage made him stick out. This caused Carlos to get in a several fights. Even without formal martial arts training, Carlos held his own. His toughness, despite his background, garnered the respect of his adversaries. Soon he was the leader of his own “gang”.
Niten and Marisol sought to curb Carlos’ increasingly rowdy behavior. Niten thought that martial arts would be good way to instill discipline in their son. He knew Masaru, a Rindo-Kan Karate master, was in South America. Masaru heard tails of a hidden master living on the continent. Niten offered to use his resources to find this master if Masaru trained his son. Masaru agreed to these terms.
Under Masaru’s tutelage, Carlos’ behavior improved. His raw talent for martial arts made him an excellent student. Niten upheld his part of the bargain. He used his wealth to find this “hidden master”. He found multiple masters over a two year span. None were the master Masaru sought. Just when they both were about to give up the search. Niten’s investigator found a tip that this master was in Brazil. Masaru left to find and challenge this master. Masaru was defeated by the Oro the master of Senjutsu. Crestfallen, Masaru returned to Japan.
Marisol feared that Carlos would return to his rowdy ways. Niten shared her concerns. He decided to send Carlos to a boarding school in Japan. It would keep him away from wild friends and he could continue his training under Masaru. Masaru was still reeling from his defeat and did not wish to teach anyone. He recommended Retsu to Niten in his stead. Retsu was a master of Shorinji Kempo. That art shared several similarities with Rindo-Kan Karate.
Marisol traveled to Japan with her son. If he wasn’t in school. He was training with Retsu. She would keep Carlos in line while his father continued his work in Venezuela. Carlos would remain in Japan until he was 16. At which point, he moved to Metro City with his family. Metro City Motor’s North American operations were faltering. Due to his success in South America, Niten was tasked with returning the North American division to profitability.
Carlos would remain in Metro City until adulthood. He’d make eventually make friends with Maki and Mayor Mike Haggar. He’d help them rescue Maki’s father and sister before returning to South America. Like his first master, Masaru, Carlos sought to test himself other martial arts masters. Maybe he’d find he would find this “Sennin” and truly test how far he’s come.
His Rival: Makoto
Attributes: Health: 3 Power: 3 Range: 4 Mobility: 3 Technique: 3
1000 Stamina 1000 Stun
Throws:
Karatakewari Ote (Cleaving Hand) – LP+LK: Carlos grabs his foes and “chops through” them with a right hand chop. 140 Damage/150 Stun
Ryodan (Bisection) – B+LP+LK: Carlos grabs his foes and “cuts through” them with a right backhand chop causing his foes stumble and fall down behind him. 150 Damage/150 Stun
Unique Attacks:
Oroshi Tegatana (Dropping Hand Blade) - B+HP: (Overhead) Carlos draws back his left over his head and attacks with a chopping strike to his opponent. 26F Startup, +3 on Hit, -2 on Block. 70 Damage/100 Stun
Kakou Tsuki (Downward Thrust) – D+MP (In Air): Carlos strikes straight downward with a left punch from a forward jump.
Chokujou Seikentsuki (Above Just Fist Thrust) - B+HP: Carlos unleashes a powerful right punch directly above his head. Attack does not hit grounded opponents. 8F Startup 32F Recovery 75 Damage/150 Stun
Rurousha Ikari (Nomad’s Wrath) – LP, MP, HP, HK: (Target Combo) Carlos strikes with two left backhand strikes, followed by a right overhead chop, and ending with a high left roundhouse kick. (Carlos’s Final Fight 2 Combo)
V-Reversal:
Kurukuru Yaiba (Spinning Blade) – F+PPP: Carlos unsheathes his sword an spins rapidly in with an up and down motion knocking his foe ¾ a screen away.
V-Skill:
Souname (Sweeping Victory) – MP+MK: Carlos attacks with rushing back sweep kick that has a ½ screen range. Attack can be charged. Uncharged (18F Startup, 60 Damage/100 Stun, Knocks Down, -12 On Block). Charged (36F Startup, Gains Armor Frame 3, 100 damage/150 Stun, Causes Juggle State, -2 On Block. )
V-Trigger 1:
Tosshin Amearare (Rush Barrage) – HP+HK: Carlos’ offensive capabilities increase allowing him to use the full strength of Tosshin Morigari Ken and Tosshin Bakuhatsu Ken with charging them. EX Tosshin Morigari Ken’s has the duration of it’s juggle state increased. EX Tosshin Bakuhatsu Ken recieves a 30 Damage/40 Stun buff . V-Trigger duration 3000F. Each Tosshin attack costs 800F. 3-Bar V-Trigger
V-Trigger 2:
Ryuuseigun (Meteor Swarm) – HP+HK: Carlos’ aerial offensive capabilites are increased. He gains the ability to perform Setsudan Kakato Otoshi from any jump. Carlos gains the ability to perform Hinotama Tegatana from neutral and back jumps. Neutral and back jump versions of Hinotama Tegatana and aerial versions of Setsudan Kakato Otoshi cost 500F. V-Trigger duration 2000F. 2-Bar V-Trigger
Specials:
Tosshin Morigari Ken (Rushing Upsurge Fist) – QCB+P : Carlos pulls back his left fist while his hair flows behind him, he then burst forward rapidly, striking his foe with an upward punch to the chin All versions knock down. Attack can be charged. Charged versions cause a juggle state. Damage the same for all versions Uncharged 80 Damage/120 Stun and Charged 90 Damage/150 Stun. EX can not be charged. Punch button only determines the distance traveled. LP (7F/12F Startup, Point Blank) MP(12F/17F Startup, ¼ Screen) HP(18F/23F Startup ½ Screen) EX(11F Projectile Invincible, Causes Juggle, 100 Damage/150 Stun, ½ Screen)
Tosshin Bakuhatsu Ken (Rushing Outburst Fist) – QCF+P : Carlos pulls back his right fist while his hair flows behind him, he then burst forward rapidly, striking his foe with an straight punch to the sternum. All versions leave his opponent standing. Attack can be charged. Charged versions cause a crumple state. Damage the same for all versions. Uncharged 90 Damage/150 Stun and Charged 100 Damage/200 Stun. Punch button only determines the distance traveled. LP (7F/12F Startup, Point Blank) MP(12F/17F Startup, ¼ Screen) HP(18F/23F Startup ½ Screen) EX(11F Projectile Invincible, Causes Crumple, 120 Damage/200 Stun, ½ Screen)
Hinotama Tegatana (Falling Star Hand Blade)- QCB+P (In Air): Carlos draws back his left over his head while jumping forward and chops violently straight down towards the ground. The punch button determines the damage and attack properties. LP(10F Startup, 90 Damage/120 Stun, +2 On Hit, Leaves Standing) MP(12F Startup, 120 Damage/150 Stun, +4 On Hit, Leaves Standing), HP(14F Startup, 150 Damage/200 Stun, Knocks Down) EX(14F Startup, 150 Damage/200 Stun, +6 On Hit, -2 On Block)
Genmaku Fuuken (Blinding Wind Fist) - HCB+K (Command Grab): Carlos grabs his opponent and strikes them with a half dozen punches in an instant. The final blow to the chest sends them flying away. All versions have a 6F Startup. Damage and Range determined by the punch button pressed. LP (Most Range, 150 Damage/200 Stun), MP(Less Range, 160 Damage/200 Stun), HP(Least Range, 170 Damage/200 Stun), EX(Most Range, Causes Wall Bounce, 150 Damage/200 Stun)
Setsudan Kakato Otoshi (Cutting Heel Drop) – QCF+K: Carlos strikes his foe with a standing forward somersault axe kick. Kick button determines startup, damage, and attack properties. LK(8F Startup, 90 Damage/120 Stun. +2 on Hit, -5 on Block) MK(10F Startup, 90 Damage/120 Stun, +5 on Hit, -2 on Block) HK (12F Startup, 120 Damage/150 Stun, Knocks Down, - 2 on Block) EX(15F Startup, 150 Damage/150 Stun, Overhead, -6 on Block)
Critical Art:
Abare Maracaibonami Kudaki (Rampaging Marcaibo Wave Shatter) - QCFx2+K: Carlos rushes towards his opponent with a flying kick that sends his opponent into wall with enough force to bounce them back to towards him. Carlos hits the opponent with rapid kick combination that ends in a high kick that sends the foe high into the air. Carlos jumps after them and spikes them into the ground with a Setsudan Kakato Otoshi . 6 hits 340 Damage (1x120, 4x15, 1x160)
Reasons to be in SFV:
Carlos sees the World Martial Arts tournament as a huge boon. Instead of having to seek out various martial arts masters, the tournament would have several all in one place. Carlos enters the tournament to test his skills and keep an eye on Maki while he’s at it.
Side Notes:
- Carlos is fluent in English, Japanese, Portuguese, and Spanish
- Carlos started collecting swords after receiving a katana from Retsu.
- The katana strapped to his back was the one he was gifted to him by Retsu.
- Carlos knows of but has never met Makato
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Carlos was an underrated FF char imho, shame they never developed him more
At first i was really open to believe Carlos was helping Zeku acting as younger-Zeku in SFV
They looked really similar and even colors matched a bit lol
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So, what was that move Akuma used to cast away Kage, the “Houten Seikengeki”?
It made me think of the Power of Nothingness, in line with what Akuma previously talked about wanting to go beyond mere Satsui no Hado, but I don’t think it can be that.
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Can you make that argument? Because I distinctly recall Bison referring to the SNH in an Alpha 3 ending as a pure form of Psycho Power. Although purity isn’t necessarily synonymous with strength.
I forgot to mention that I really enjoyed your last post, because I never considered the context that Bison is also one master in a line of characters that all want to be Ryu’s master after Gouken.
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Literally, 崩天正拳撃 hōten seikengeki is “Heaven destroying straight fist attack”. Despite its pompous name, it’s at the very least curious that the move is visually completely indistinguishable from Ryu’s own Mu no Ken. Maybe Gouki has found his way to surpass SNH, even if he still doesn’t want to acknowledge that… it’s a method completely opposite to his way of life, so he conceals a simple Mu no Ken under a pretentious name. Just my guess…
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I don’t think it’s Mu.
Akuma has a mocking tone when speaking of Ryu’s path in his character story which takes place after Kage’s story.
He clearly says he walks the Demon’s path and that his soul is a ‘demon soul’, with his ultimate goal being to surpass Heaven and divinity.
If Mu no Ken is the pure fist of heaven and humanity, Akuma’s hōten seikengeki is a technique he is developing to destroy it. Note though, that he uses this technique in the astral plane not in the physical world. Which means it is possibly not even ready to be employed in a real battle.
I was just thinking how I was missing your posts in this thread.
That’s actually an interesting thought on Akuma. Maybe Kage wasn’t so bad for the story after all, he brought some interesting stuff.
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