I think the entire roster was planned and developed at least 2 years before each was announced. In fact, I’d go as far as saying all upcoming characters were part of the plan from year 1. The only thing that may change is the order of release.
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Great point man.
The whole SF4 video you post doesn’t mean/justify/foreshadow him to look like his SFV counterpart. What it foreshadow is that he is a replacement body for Bison that’s it and the whole cinematic mode which is before being a character in SFV is the most recent comparable and reference to the current Ed which contradict things heavily in appearance.
The whole rushed aging thing was as a plot device was just a cover up excused because those kind of element was not very common in SF before.
And this is ^ the true answer they may have been planned but not so SOON. Since SFV was planned for multiple seasons to take note.
They may have been working with blank 3D models as templates already with move-sets before they applied skins, textures, voices and story endings. Thus they are not spoiled easily, This explains why the 3D models are different compare to kiki which probably canon in the beginning and also conflicting with models/mesh with cinematic and the game itself.
I’m aware of this because I know how the work flow in software development and I am also aware with 3D production because it is separated to different areas of expertise, Nowadays everything is separated and just assemble and combined together. This isn’t just art and programming games logic like in the 90s that are common thought and people are familiar with.
In SF story from Japan and US that’s always the case… different interpretation, but many AAA games already has problems because of conflicting designed ideas from character traits, move sets, dialogue and game mechanics because they are done in different department and teams that those ideas are combined to meet the target released schedule and date not just story or visuals.
That’s why I was bringing the idea about how important Art Direction and Style Guide is in the previous thread and topic before so everything would be at least organized and also reduced design complication, major brands that have strong merchandise as a business have stick guidelines on those.
Ed in SSF4 ending being declared as host body justify itself the “rushed aging”
You want a body that reach quickly it’s physical peak without have to wait 20-25 years
Also his appearance in cinematic story (before the bigger/older playable one) itself hint at accellerated growt, as in SSF4 he looked much younger and less built
Ask different people what SF is supposed to be and you’ll get different answers.
Make a new game with a roster filled with new characters, and people will condemn the game no matter how solid that roster might be. Skip fan-favorites, and people will complain. The presence or absence of recognizable favorites will affect sales outside of how the specific character choices affect gameplay.
Look at the lesson of Street Fighter III, which had to bring in favorites/mascots Akuma and Chun-Li in order to appease fans.
Capcom didn’t appear to have any interest in Necalli as a character, anyway. Necalli was the literal poster boy for Street Fighter V, and was initially presented as a powerful new entity that would co-lead the game.
Then Capcom released A Shadow Falls, and Necalli was reduced to an unfinished stub of an unimportant side-story. (I say unfinished because the story doesn’t even do anything with the Necalli-Nash connection that it established at the start.) That showed how much Capcom actually thought of their new creation
I doubt Capcom had any concerns over Akuma stealing Necalli’s thunder, Necalli is a clear one-and-done design while Akuma has unfortunately become a staple character.
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I don’t think it’s enough as a hint, It only hints it will be but not so soon. I look into it as an excuse to justify his entry, there are more basis that they weren’t supposed to be in there yet.
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And the whole change in ED isn’t age thing alone but also the body buff.
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Another thing to point out is that the DOLLS in cinematic mode do FIGHT even some dolls like Noebelum and the rest doesn’t make you fight them in a match but they do FIGHT and attack in cinematic, but ED isn’t fighting at all. (it’s like he wasn’t trained yet by Balrog)
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Balrog also Fights along with the Dolls and soldier in cinematic mode, while all that ED does is staying behind it looks like he wasn’t in box training that time yet.
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Last but not the least is FAULKe and the whole Neo Shadaloo was something never present, existing or discussed** before in cinematic mode.
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It was implied in FAULKE storymode that ED and her known each other and have some kind of special connections earlier before Balrogs Training so there a huge hole in there.
He was just there to avoid Akuma to over saturate Ryu story to soon, I always knew him as a FILLER CHARACTER a temporary substitute for AKUMA, Since he was suggest to have a major role upon Ryu was already a sign that he won’t be likely to return because having a major with Ryu means you need to deal against the like of Akuma, Bison, Ken, Sagat and etc. So likely he’ll end or banished because of not existing in SF3.
Yet due to the demands, request and polls… Akuma was added so soon.
So true
But then take what’s the evergreen point of SF games: cast variety
SF games ever had young balanced fighters, speedy waifus, slow superheavyweight grapplers, the bizzarre wierdo, the middle age badass dude, the freak, the old master, the quick small guy etc etc etc, you know it
More or less that’s in SF2, SFA, SF3, SF4, SFV
If we imagine you let “people” do it with theyr shitty polls, you will not get a SF cast
People seem to dislike most of what make SF SF, so fuck people tbh
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I’m sure the season 4 roster will have some surprises, and probably some unpopular choices. Sure they’ll throw in a few top requested characters, but after season 3 basically being the “fan fave” season, they’re probably not gonna be that predictable.
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Akuma and Sakura would always be top tiers request. I don’t know the third and forth spot is?
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the entire reason Necalli exists was just so they could do that “V” face tattoo connection for the early promo shots, and that Capcom never really thought about Necalli beyond that. That the whole “eternal warrior” thing, and pitting him against Ryu, was just an easy out versus actually bothering to come up with a real story.
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We believe here that it’s(Necali) entire purpose is just to took out SNH within Ryu, base on the trailer and in SF3 theories. Other than that his gone for good probably destroyed by Akuma or a Ryu plot upgrade.
But I think Capcom have other purpose with him that they change a lot from the trailer and cinematic. He is okay to be kept in the background like Gluttony in FMA, to chew upon lesser and weak villains or heroes. He adds some kind of horror theme like he was showed in cinematic mode.
Many had though so that the story costumes and trailer was a clue of what cinematic mode was supposed to be meant, like bearded Ryu and battle damage Bison could have been part of cinematic but probably it was shortened and trimmed then decreased to few chapters that can adjust and adopt an earlier released date, My thought was it because of whinning fans across the internet due to the lack of content.
Necalli was an incarnation of SnH power, Ryu defating him in combat was a metaphor of him overcoming SnH… wich was made clear by the way did it, he had to literally purify his own ki to win
The story didn’t need Necalli in it. Sure he’s an interesting character going by design, but his place in the story kinda just cheapens it. It would have been so much more satisfying (and simpler storywise) to have Ryu beat Akuma and have that be the defining moment where he finally conquers SnH.
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That’s my issue. I love his design, didn’t love his execution. I’ve made it no secret I’m not the biggest Ryu fan, though recent efforts have been warming me up. Seeing Ryu and Akuma battle in a cutscene and then he, as the music swells hits Akuma with a shoryuken, then having Akuma land, painfully, and looking up surprised as we see a close up of not an enraged Ryu, but rather a serine one, would be pretty sweet.
While Necalli was supposed to be a thematic element for Ryu to overcome, since there wasn’t a previous, or even current, notable connection, the satisfaction isn’t there. Having this be a turning point victory for Ryu against Akuma and then having him have to pick himself up and re-train and rework himself would be great and it’s been building for over a decade, so it’d be satisfying. With Ryu trouncing the new guy who had no previous connection just doesn’t hit the same vibes. Sure the scenes were animated well, but taking the thematic resonance of a victorious Ryu vs defeated Akuma would be oh so sweet.
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Necalli was a dark mirror for Ryu, a physical representation of his inner struggle with the SNH. In Necalli, Capcom moved Ryu’s darkness so that we do not have to see Evil Ryu again. Necalli in this sense, is a genius move on their part.
People had high expectations for Necalli, because they assumed he was the boss but Capcom made it clear that this story was there to bridge to SF3 and explain the absence of Shadaloo then.
Necalli was there to explain the absence of Evil Ryu only, and to also represent (canonically) a vision of the final destination to those who become lost on their fighting path. Sagat, Ryu, and even Akuma could all be the next Necalli. We’ve seen hints in SF4 that the SNH makes one lose their mind, that they become violent, chaotic, and even beastial. Necalli is everything the SNH we were introduced to in SF4 would lead to.
I like everything about Necalli, except the fact that he didn’t pose enough of a threat to anyone. I still think if Necalli killed Dhalsim in the first act of ASF, it would’ve set a better tone for the rest of the story. (Note: Dhalsim would still come back once Ryu defeated him because Dhalsim is love)
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Capcom is just trying to slow things down because they are saving the best for Ryu vs AKuma in the later but because of the request and demands of Akuma it still happened so soon in SFV. So we’ll probably see somewhat a slight change in SF3 with the Ryu and Akuma.
Because of the rush of Akuma vs Ryu we get instead a illustrated art work rather than a possible cinematic battle installment latter? Just a theory of mine.
I just hoped never that Capcom would abadon the idea of Ryu just need to control SNH in other future stories, for me it needs to be abadon by Ryu for better and effective of fighting techniques because of being conflicted and restrictive for a particular mindset required to trancend and improve. if not totally discarded.
The thing is, I don’t disagree with you in part, I just feel the concept could be better executed. By making him this mythical mud monster, I feel that introduced a weird element to him and further separated him from the intended SNH role. Having him be a chaotic and bestial victim of the SNH is great and lore-accurate, heck, have him be a warrior that’s long-lived showing that part of the curse is you may not even get the peace of death itself unless soundly defeated, so you’re cursed with feral madness for the rest of your days.
They could have had him be sealed, but not killed in a glacier or something and then he’s unleashed directly or indirectly due to Bison’s actions at the start of the story. The mud monster angle now introduces more questions of WHAT is he? Where did he come from? Is he really alive or just a creature? What other magical monsters now exist in Sf’s history? It didn’t do much of directly pointing him to the SNH when it should have had fun with links and connections and innuendos.
A big stumbling block is he had more of an interaction with Charlie than Ryu in a sense. Charlie’s back, full of rage and almost consumed by this thing that senses a resurrection fuelled with hatred. A man who wants victory at ANY cost. He sensed that and wanted him, possibly for those SNH-like reasons. I didn’t want eloquent speeches or anything, but all he did was growl and send people running after that. They didn’t explain why he left Charlie’s “dream” or limbo before going after Ryu. His interactions could have used more subtly and, paradoxically more overt connections. Even a “This feels so familiar…like Akuma…but, darker, more lost, more focused!” line could have helped. I personally would have saved his big entrance not for Charlie, but for Ryu and Dhalsim where you could sow the seeds better. I gotta rewatch the storymode, but I don’t recall there being too much of a hinted Ryu connection.
I feel that he could have played into that role you mentioned with a bit of tweaking, but they added too much else and diluted that point, and, as I said before, not having a previous, or even recent, continuous hounding relationship with Ryu hurts the satisfaction of it all. Akuma’s been there for ages calling on Ryu to follow that darker path, he’s been that physical reminder of Gouken’s defeat as well. He’s got that inescapable connection to Ryu, but Necalli didn’t do much to establish such a thing that would make Ryu not only beating him, but finally burying his long-standing suffering, satisfying.
To me, it’s like having a Batman story where the Joker is tormenting Bats as usual, but really dragging out the “I killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barbara Gordon” taunting and then Bane is introduced for the first time, makes one or two pretty bad cracks about them and Batman soundly beats him, finally forgiving himself and being able to get peace from those two incidents.
To me, the new guy kind of picks up the old gags of the arch enemy, gets soundly whupped, and then the hero finally enters a peace that has long eluded him while the perpetrator of the grief is nowhere to be found. It just doesn’t feel satisfying to me.
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Sometimes I look up to Gill’s quotes to Kolin in the ending of SFV Shadow Falls as a metaphor to describe fans that are speculators, theories and SF historian to expect things should happen exactly the way they perceive SF3 events from previous writings and interpretations.
Helen: Shadaloo has been destroyed. However, [the one] who defeated Bison…
Gill: The ending is slightly different… from the text written in the ancient prophecy. Could it be an inconsequential error, alone in the endless expanse of time? Perhaps…
Helen: I am truly sorry.
Gill: Heh. The world is destined to be ashen and barren. The balance between regeneration and destruction must be restored.
Helen: So… you mean…!
Gill: Come and follow me… Kolin!
[Helen is transformed into Kolin in a flash of shattering ice.]
It’s like Capcom giving everyone somewhat a foreshadow in the end credits, That things are bound to happen but do not expect it as exact way you knew it, as Gill transforms Helen into Kolin, .
Why Gill do need to change her name that moment? Why not before? Gill can magically groom someone with one wave of hand? Gill can change someone else fashion sense? Gill can magically clothe someone from thin air? Gill has reality morphing abilities? Why does the radical change needs to happen just now why not before Shadow falls or latter? Why is is so instant and magically rather than the rest should happen in a more realistic writing?
The thing is with those so many a questions…
…It’s like Capcom as saying to their fans to stop overthinking, don’t mind it, don’t bother it and analyze everything trying to be so logical, critical and exact, because the important thing now is that it is connected and prelude to SF3 instantly.
I just notice It while re-watching Nash death and looking in ending details.
If Necalli was not in A Shadow Falls, no one would be the wiser. He has zero real impact on the story. His absence creates zero plot holes.
Yes, storywise Ryu overcomes the SnH thanks to the Necalli fight. But that wasn’t necessary, no one would have questioned Ryu overcoming the SnH on his own. It might have been different if Ryu was in the midst of the action throughout and had no time to overcome it, until he fights Necalli in a deadly pivotal fight and comes into enlightenment. But that isn’t what happened. Ryu has already devoted himself to ignoring everything else until he overcomes the SnH.
Remove Necalli: Ryu needs to overcome the SnH, as before… Ryu stays off on his own to meditate and train to overcome the SnH, as before. Ryu reaches his epiphany, overcomes the SnH, and gains his magic butterfly purified ki. Ryu swoops in at the end to wrap up a Bison story that he’d previously had zero involvement with, because heaven forbid anyone other than Ryu be the pivotal day-saving character in an SF storyline, as before.
Zero difference, other than Nash not having his weird sheep vision, Dhalsim giving background for an otherwise irrelevant character, and a few otherwise unnecessary fights are dropped.
Removing Laura from the story would have a greater visible impact than removing Necalli, and I’m still suspicious that A Shadow Falls was originally written before Laura even existed. (The pivotal parts of the Matsuda section are Sean’s story, not Laura’s. Even though it is Laura’s chess piece, Sean has it. F.A.N.G goes after Sean, not Laura. Ken and friends rescue Sean, not Laura. Sean agrees to give the chess piece to Ken, only asking Laura after making that decision himself. Laura joins the group on their quest, and I don’t believe you even see her again until the end of the story, where she’s shown in the background of a group shot at the base explodes?) At least if you remove Laura, you’d have to come up for an explanation of why Sean was sent a chess piece.
That time many have fall in love with her character, Kolin becomes one of the most requested character after the cinematic mode despite being shown having inability to fight anyone, when challenge in the cinematic mode like ED too, She was supposed to be a secretary, yet her character in-game was more of her previous representation in cinematic.
I remember have even speculated her silhouette representation to be her twin sister , a sister? or a comrade, because of excluding her base from the SFV cinematic ending.
Then there’s many fans speculations about her, not just about the ice power.
As for Necali he is needed to bridge gap and expand the story same with what Seth was. So the resolution wouldn’t be so soon.
Agree it was confusing why he needs to be a mud monster that has human form, He should have been a awaken sealed spirit or a ancient symbiotic entity that consumes and after warriors that interact with SNH.
Another strong point is that the MUD Monster thing isn’t complementary with the Necali’s movesets and even his SFV trailer, It’s not even Necali’s character intro that would simply from mud to turn into a human like form.
This is cause of being just assemble and combined latter. So it end up having slightly different representation of Necali’s nature and physicality from cinematic scene and game play. Same thing with the events of the trailer.
I just hope they would turn him more symbiotic
I agree with Charie part, he should not have been special part with Charie story other than a rampaging monster that afters strong fighter and Dhalsim should had at least explained to everyone “what kind of monster” Necali is like how he describe it to Ryu, but not the origin or “who is Necali” thing.
That’s why I also believe the story was trimmed in a way to compromised with the lack of content.