Something I dislike about 3s: Ken’s jump HK, cr.HP, HP SRK doesn’t combo. At all. Coming from HF this is blasphemy.
Something I like: you can unload about 83 normals into a cornered character’s block before being pushed out.
you gotta hit jump ins deep.
New games sort of baby you with how much hitstun jump ins do.
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Games? I’m on steam pairofrooks
Fine. Just because I want my runback.
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That is actually so weird to me.
You’re already taking a big risk jumping, (Ok, not in 3S) why do you also have to wait until the last instant to get a combo too?
It just exarcerbates the risk for no reason. I don’t see the merit from a design perspective.
Alright, what is this voice chat thing that is making my PC magically run like shit?
Well, in a way (and not that I’m quick enough to do this) but it gives you time to commit to a button, whereas you may opt to parry instead.
This was a fun set. Guy was pretty mash-happy (so was I). I didn’t do much about it other than realize crouch-blocking on wakeup and eating a OH was better than standing.
That’s specific to 3S, and the reason I said “Ok, not in 3S”.
But this isn’t the first time I see Pertho raise this point about older games. And frankly, without the parry shenanigans, every time you jump, you’re making a hard read.
You’re effectively telling your opponent “I know you’re going with a ground-based poke, and I’m gonna punish you for being so predictable.”
Jumps were always designed as high-risk, high-reward. But when the risk is too high, the reward isn’t really worth it. In my opinion, that’s the case with deep jump-ins.
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Checks out to me
In games where grounded neutral is ostensibly the focus why would you want the universal option that travels massive space to be safe and rewarding? Even a modern game like granblue requires a deep jump in to get a combo for a lot of characters
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Maybe I wasn’t that clear.
Jumps are supposed to be high-risk. If I’m not whiffing something as you jump, I should either be safe or be doing good damage with an AA.
No one really wants an SFV scenario where you can really just jump whenever you want because really, what do you have to lose?
I actually don’t like how GB’s non-EX DPs don’t really get to be air unblockable for the whole time they’re active. It undermines their purpose just as bad as Air Parries do in 3S, except it’s even worse because you don’t even really have to time it.
It’s bad on both fronts. You need deep jump-ins to get the reward for your already high-risk maneuver, and your dedicated AA special is weak at its job.
But you get a lot of reward from jumping in successfully, even without a combo. You…
- Are in the opponent’s face (neutral skip, didn’t have to deal with strong ground tools)
- Are very likely plus on block even if they did a “safe” response like blocking, allowing a mixup
- Are also very likely plus on hit, allowing more pressure etc
For games where pressure or entry is supposed to be “earned” that’s already a lot of benefit imo
Why put a full grounded combo on top of that too
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my wife is yelling at me. GGs i’ll write more later
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Story of my life🙄
actually she’s usually interrupting with cool shit like margaritas or my cat
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Ok so, I have a lot to address since I’m coming into this late. If you were in the tourney today, you can click through the details, otherwise a lot of this will be a load of nonsense that I’m too lazy to provide context for.
Summary
False and bullshit.
Fine, as usual!
So this is the man behind the screen?
They all are.
So much BS!
Nah, don’t exaggerate. You escape them a good amount, due in no small part to the trip guarding. It’s super effective!
Send an invite 
Nah I’m probably the worst here. I’m about as good as Volt’s and Rook’s connection.
3rd Strike - YOU NEED TO PRACTICE MORE - YouTube
They do. Depends on the situation, obviously, but they generally do. If you mean all those normals in a sequence, remember that in 3S, you can cancel your landing recovery from a jumping normal by pressing down, down-back, down-forward. Lucky for you, Cr.HP is down+HP. Just clean up the input. Also, comboing j.HK into SRK is criminally easy I found out.
Not always. It doesn’t give you the space to do a double DP sometimes. But sometimes that’s what you want, like with 123 on Yun. It’s character, matchup and player dependant.
As I said before, you don’t. I think what we need here is some character knowledge. You don’t need a deep hit sometimes, and sometimes you do. It’s all relative. And to the point of jump ins not being risky, they are just as risky in this game as any other game. Remember that I have a 7-10fr window to employ air parry, and can only do it once on my way down, often only once a jump. That aside, 3S juggles and AAs work very uniquely. I got jump ins all day today because no one knows how to counter it. You’re all too conditioned by air parry. But yesterday, I played a godlike Q that just jabbed me out of the air. We played for an hour and I never got a successful jump in. He always jabbed me out. It’s entirely character and player dependent. It’s highly risky and often the risk/reward isn’t worth it, but damage is damage.
You are making multiple hard reads in 3S, but yes, your point here is essentially correct. What follows may or may not be true depending on who you’re playing.
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Ok, you’re talking about a situation where you actually jumped and got an early hit, right?
I actually went up and looked at 3S Ryu’s frame data for his j.HP.
The interesting thing, which unlike the FD for pretty much any air normals nowadays, is that it exists.
No, really. You don’t find your air buttons’ FD on hit or block in any Frame Data app and even Dustloop Wiki has nothing on them for GBVS.
What I did find in newer games was Divekick frame data.
And as you can tell, you’re only really at an advantage on a deep hit. Early divekicks leave you minus at point blank range. That’s… not much of a reward for the risk you take.
3S [Edit: jump heavy] normals on the other hand, are always plus, so you do have the advantage even if you blow your load earlier.
I’d still prefer the stronger jumps, stronger AAs design, but now I can see how old games actually worked, which was something I never understood out of Pertho’s comments about old game jumps.
So basically… I fucked up. 
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Ahem…
http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/index.php?id=11
You call this shit plus!?
Also, for anyone interested, this is the site we use for 3S frame data. It’s got a lot of niche situations in it too. Note that some stuff may be incorrect, but it’s generally fine and the best source that players use.
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Also, are we running the next Smackdown next Saturday? I say we do it every other week, but it’s up to you guys.
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Wait really? I didn’t know this at all, but you can do this after a hit?
40% of the time, (I actually got a lot better at AAing after we started playing) if I went for the trip guard, it’s because I couldn’t go for an AA that I’m more comfortable with.
That means you actually did a good job at jumping, you went over a poke or a fireball or anything that didn’t left me with enough time for my classic St.HK/Cr.HP AAs.
(Yes, I still can’t remember to St.LP AA, my brain is just not wired to it.)
But the real reason I pretty much eat that filthy jump demon every time is because of the air fireballs.
I have to commit to an AA, preferably not DP because lol parries, if I wait to see if you’re setting up a demon, I get hit by literally anything else, and if I don’t, I’m either getting parried, shot or demon’d.
It’s really rough to deal with Akuma’s jumps in this game because his options are really good at mixing you up.
I think you’re missing some context here.
Pertho mentioned the thing with newer games having too much hitstun on jump-ins several times across several threads.
I just commented on it because I realized today that since I get way too antsy when I jump, I was hitting j.MK way too early and was actually getting minus on hit situations.
This was literally a comment on the design of jumps in older games but also me trying to understand how they work.
Cut the crap, you actually won the tournament. Sure, you’re a bit too reckless for your own good, but you’re not bad.
(Seriously, when I hit you with raw HK Donkey Kick in neutral, that’s a tip. You’re too thirsty.)
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