Dude, I NEVER said Gief was a bad character. He’s a solid mid. I’m simply saying that he has the same difficulties and bad matchups Hawk has. Even when Gief was WAY WAY better in Vanilla legendary folk, the itabashi’s of the world, etc weren’t exactly going home with solid gold at the headliner events.
So to clarify, I’m NOT saying Gief is not viable because he doesn’t win big tournaments. I’m saying Gief is not viable because he has to mind fuck 2 times more and work 4 times harder than characters with say …get out of jail free moves (DP), braindead ultra setups, and RH kicks of death and it SHOWS with tournament results.
And you sir have a little flavor of contradiction yourself. On the one hand you say the best players are tier whoring but then saying anyone can win if people put time into them. That would mean tiers are shit. So which is it?
Maining one of the bottom top 10 is tier-whoring? How about maining top 3/4?
Maining Seth trying to go after tiers won’t get you SHIT, since it’s pretty hard to use him, thanks to his dumb-ass health. Anyways, this is not the appropriate thread for that.
Can you clarify this? Seems a bit at odds with simultaneously saying he should entirely lose the Oil Up mechanic, which is sort of his defining gimmick. I’d if any buffs were planned to Hakan buff his unoiled throw range, increase the duration of all oils and increase the speed of oil up a bit too… Oh, and increase the height of Hakan’s Oil Dive’s ( and super ) collision box, so if he whiffs certain crouchers he still sails past them instead of landing at their feet with that insane recovery… hell, if you’re feeling really crazy, cut one recovery frame from hakan tackle and step knee.
In my opinion, making hakan GOOD is removing all “oil-up” from him. make him permanently oiled up. That would be a huge buff for him. He’d pump up in the annoyance rating instantly.
Perma oil would be a huge direct buff and shoot him up in the tiers to a competitive level right away, and in theory it would be pretty easy to implement. I don’t like the way it changes up his gameplan though.
The biggest problem really with oil is that it’s not a very long buff even in HK/EX modes, and it’s insanely unsafe outside of LK, which has a pathetic duration.
removing the oil-up mechanic from Hakan is a BAD idea. will it make him a better character? yes it would, without a doubt. it would also fucking break him later on down the road.
I’m with Ultradavid when comes to my opinion on Hakan, he’s not much now, but the fucker’s got assloads of potential, especially when oiled up. of all the characters in SSFIV, he is the one that has been figured out the least. this is not due to a lack of work or discovery, the folks in the Hakan boards have found some good stuff. but I can just FEEL that there’s alot more to be found with the turkish oil tycoon. give it a year, maybe even two. Hakan will have enough tricks and shenanigans to go toe to toe with the everyone. even now he’s still doing fine. alot of people are just sleepin on 'im.
also,personally, I like the oil up gimmick. sure it would be easier if he always had the buffs, but that’s part of his charm. you gotta think with him. taking away Hakan’s gimmick would be like making all of Zangief’s throws a quartercircle forward rather than a 360 or 720. sure, it would be easier, but every last one of you would know that that just wouldn’t be right. it just wouldn’t FEEL right.
Removing Hakan’s oil up and leaving him constantly oiled would be waaaaaaaay too good. Maybe just longer oil time and/or quicker oil up; or even an Angry Scar type freeze Oil Up that costs 2 bars or something.
Hakan doesn’t really require any major, gamechanging buffs. little things, like you said, longer/ quicker oil up or a (slightly) improved unoiled Spd. unoiled spd is supposed to suck compared to the likes of zangief and Hawk, (that’s why getting oiled up is a priority) but it can at least be better than seth’s spd (I’m fairly certain seth’s spd range is slightly greater than Hakan’s unoiled range). basically, it still has to suck no matter what, I just want it to suck less. maybe make it recover a teensy bit faster too. just a wee bit.
Hakan really doesn’t need anything big changed. just little, tiny tweaks.
Give his EX oil a freeze effect and give HK oil the current EX’s projectile immunity. LK oil should last slightly longer. MK oil… Erm… do something with it.
Oh, cr.rh should be airborne, his non command throws need slightly longer reach too.
Oh, and lift Oil Dive’s collision box so it flies over all crouchers instead of smacking into some and having him play the whiff animation at their feet for a free punish with ANYTHING.
How would removing oiling up make him broken? The only thing that would be broken would be 24/7 moving Focus Attacks, and that can easily be removed along with the oiling up mechanic. Without that it’d just make him a high tier character, it doesn’t magically give him a good way to get out of pressure situations, something he’s seriously lacking.
Well, the way I look at it is that if he is constantly oiled he would have the most HP; a mobile FA that can be DNC’ed for a brutal mixup and his tick throw game would be fucking amazing; especially in conjunction with constant DNC-ability. Essentially he would have access to an instant armored LV1 FA DNC combo/tick mixup all the time. AKA everyone would have a new main.
If you remove oil up he becomes another similar char. I don’t mind that street fighter focuses on simple char design but Hakkan is MEANT to be quirky so lets please stick with Oil up and just rebalance it.
Maybe making oil up more like Tsubaki or Holy Order Sol’s system would go some way to making it usefull.
Or what about. He automatically gets oiled (maybe a mk oil) after a set period of time since he was last oiled.
This way if you’re being absolutely pressured you get auto oiled, but if you go on the offensive you have to find time to oil up after each move?
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When the day comes that you know your opponent’s full potential, when you know how to deal with every variation of attack if only you can stay sharp enough, whether you’re a grappler pressing forth through a storm of fireballs, or a character devoid of practical reversals who survives a rushdown unscathed, you will feel like [media=youtube]0VhfPN_6fcA"[/media], and will be just as enabled.