Was it Street Fighter? Were the inputs mandatory?
That seems all types of wrong and akward for a motion.
So when I shared the article regarding the change to one of our local groups, one of the KoF vets made casual mention of 2001 Heidern. Can any other KoF players around here (@Laban ?) give some more insight on this?
@d3v , I don’t really mess with or touch 2001 often, but one of the top tier and frequently used characters was Heidern. In past incarnations, he was a Guile/Charge character, but for some reason in KOF 2001, he became a motion character without changing the properties of his moves (as opposed to Nash in SFV in which his properties did change such as HP Sonic Boom being the quick recovery projectile but added more start-up to compensate). Of the few match videos I found, there would almost always be a Heidern on the team. @Giby would know more, but if I recall he can attest to the strength of Heidern being strong without charge motions.
That said, was he broken within the context of the game? From what I saw, I wouldn’t say he was broken. Nonetheless, he was a strong character because of the utility of being able to move forward but readily be able to either projectile or anti-air. Charge times are already much quicker in KOF than SF, so charging is not an issue. Being able to walk or run forward and projectile adds more to his space control game than he previously had before though. Previously, at the least, you can store a down charge while running forward in KOF by going f.f. into df. and keep running with df. then flash kick/slash when you need to.
So while for KOF, the impact isn’t as drastic as say giving Guile command moves without changing recovery times (SSFIV for 3DS). It did put Heidern as a top tier with a tool set that would other wise be mid or mid-high tier with his old charge motions. It’s like how in KOF98, I’d say Terry’s Rising Tackle is better as a DP motion than it is as a charge motion as O.Terry has because being able to do it whenever you need to on reaction during the neutral game helps very much. Heidern ends up top tier in a game with wonky shit like easy to set up infinite with Kula and other wacky broken stuff.
You big dummeh hes talking about Smash 4 lol
On a serious note, considering the way fighting games are going it wouldn’t be too farfetched. Rising Thunder and Vanguard Princess are 2 other fighting games that are made with keyboard in mind and have little to no motions.
Youd have to completely change the button and footsie game to make no motions work in SF though.
I would actually like to see Nash changed back into a charge character.
I know. It was a rhetorical question. In Smash 4 they gave Ryu his standard inputs + Smash inputs. Do they open up his options? Hell if I know but they sure do get in the way of trying to play Smash. Pivot Short Hop B-Air often gives me air Tatsu.
EDIT: Was that Fred Sanford?
The dumbest thing about making fighting games with keyboards in mind, is that people fucking think a keyboard makes your execution worse.
A fucking hitbox is a keyboard with sanwa buttons and everyone who played on that will tell you that it makes execution piss-easy as soon as you get used to it, Jesus Christ. If you get yourself a gaming keyboard that registers enough button presses, you’re just as good with a keyboard as people are with a stick or gamepad.
Yup lol. Wonder if you can actually play footsies with Ryu in Smash
Lol smash purist swear the footsie game is really deep… I’ve only played drunk and spammed projectiles with ness
The footsies would be there if the game didn’t stupidly reward shielding everything. Then again smash is a very different kind of fighter so I don’t think you can apply footsies to the game the same way you do in SF.
Biggest problem with people in the world is that they don’t ever know what they really want.
If the changes make Vega better all around then how can you not want this.
Actually a character with smash type inputs is super interesting to me, not just the 1 button specials but the ability to perform “smash” attacks. It’s a shame that SF has never supported analog inputs. That would require a new type of arcade stick though.
Could always make double button “special” or “normal” attacks for such things. Or make it so you could dash forward, or dash forward hit a button for a smash attack that cancels out the dash. Or perhaps if you hold a button down while dashing you could get a new move. Or maybe, just hold a button down. There are a lot of things SF hasn’t really done yet to add new stuff, but at the same time, I think if you add too much it gets too complicated and we end up with OS Fighter 4: Vortex Edition. I like that SF5 is simplifying things.
tbh invincible backdash just makes it so you have to add os’s to get the same level of pressure you’d get in a more “simple” game. It’s the biggest thing about sf4 that changes the knockdown game so much. Vortexes exist in like literally every game i’ve played seriously.
You can, to some extent. Try picking Marth in Melee and pretend you’re playing Street Fighter. You’ll get surprisingly far on just spacing, well-placed normals and whiff punishment.
The neutral game in Melee is probably closer to something like KOF though, but a lot of the same concepts apply.
Vega actually looks extremely strong with motion inputs
it actually seems to open up his options in close up range
who knows , maybe Vega will benefit from motion inputs in the long run
You know, I was just thinking, if this game is being designed for a faster pace and relies a lot of knock down techs, then you won’t be charging a lot if the tech input is pressing down as you hit the ground. Dashing forward and tech knock downs means you’re breaking whatever direction to store charge. If any charge character relied on a charge move for a reversal, they would be at a disadvantage since they have to choose reversal and dealing with delayed knock down setups or getting up on their feet. If most of the cast isn’t charge, then that character may become free to pressure (depending on just how good that reversal is, I don’t think this game is going for strong reversal attacks) in comparison, and will most likely be looked at as “slowing down the game” or “too defensive” in light of their new game theory.
Just some thoughts.
Is down the only option for teching? In SF4 you can tech with any two buttons OR by pressing down on the stick.
Also means heavier emphasis on V Reversals. Considering they work against a solid amount of block pressure.