SF4 does not speak for the entire series or for charge characters.
I didn’t say that though. All specials can and will be punished in their own way, regardless if they are charge or not, but the risks and rewards are adjusted for each on an individual basis. Charge specials are a different breed of special moves. If you can’t manage, mitigate, or mask their vulnerabilities, maybe they are just not your style.
Thats true about Rising Thunder. Everyone in that game is basically a charge character without the back forward inputs.
Charge specials can situationally be moves that are unique, I just like that SFV is changing the ones that have no real use for being charge other than the sake or novelty of it.
Which, honestly, has more to do with NRS being willing to eviscerate their characters on-screen than any “appealing and generous” single player content. Mortal Kombat is Mortal Kombat, especially in the states. 9 was “meh” at best and it still sold like hot cakes because you could rip people in half after you beat them.
Charge moves are limiting, period. You may be used to them, you may like them, but that doesn’t change the fact that motion inputs allow for instant reactions and charge motions do not. You don’t have to put a freaking ring on it when you think maybe you want one or two specials available to you. Vega with motion controls is a Vega who has access to his move-set at all times, which makes him a scarier character. The fact that it also makes him easier to pick up and play is a bonus for the casual crowd. Frankly, I applaud Capcom for being willing to mess with the status quo.
That doesn’t really track. Rising Thunder’s specials may have cool downs. but when they’re available, they’re available. Timing is the only condition for them. I don’t get crossed up and lose my Cold Drill.
All specials have their limitations, but that doesn’t stop you as a player from persevering with your character if you KNOW HOW TO PLAY THEM. It didn’t stop Wong, it didn’t stop PR Balrog, it didn’t stop Alucard, and so many others through out this game’s history.
Mess with the status quo? Lol. Capcom get to pick on Vega/Birdie/Nash because they can get away with it. Plain and simple. When they change Akuma’s skillset this dramatically, I’ll applaud their bravery if that’s what you want to call it.
Sure, all specials have their limitations, but a charge move’s attributes are much more conditional than just “negative on block” or “trades with X”. We’re not talking about having the perseverance to practice tight links until they’re muscle memory. Charge moves limit what specials are available to a character at any given opportunity and can even give the opponent control over what moves I can use. I don’t lose the ability to use power bomb because I got crossed up.
Hmmm. :s
Anyway, you’ve failed to prove how motion characters are more accessible or easier to mash with. No one is going to win tournaments mashing out specials, you know, there is a such thing as whiff punish. People can try to play like that, but they’re going to get their ass kicked by simple things. Funny how you think your video proves that mashing makes Bison more accessible because OMG look he’s mashing out that special move, but which player won? They both sucked and were mashing, but because he was mashing out stuff and not blocking and she was mashing out a longer ranged normal attack she was winning. You put out a horrible example to support your idea that motion somehow makes characters more accessible and easy to use.
Hell, again, I’ll use myself as an example. When I was a kid I would play charge characters because they were a lot easier to do special moves with. Especially CE Bison, you could literally win by Psycho Crush back and forth and it takes no dexterity or skill at all. Let’s ignore the fact that he was just retarded good, the fact was, as a kid in 5th grade I could do special attacks with a charge character and I couldn’t throw a Hadouken for my life. It wasn’t until I was in 7th grade or so when I was playing on a game pad that I figured out how to do a SRK. I did figure out how to Hadouken in the arcade, but I couldn’t do it nearly as easy as I could charge FBA with Vega or PC with Bison.
On the other hand, MK was always easy input. Scorpion was literally tap back 2x and press a punch button to get his spear. His teleport was way harder to do, but wasn’t required to win. Sub-Zero had easy inputs, too, with the most difficult probably being his ice ball which I was able to do after having learned Hadouken. Slide was super easy. Liu Kang had tap forward 2x inputs. On the other hand, it’s not even the inputs that really make the game accessible, it’s that pretty much every character had the same normal attacks and general way to approach a match. This was true for at least MK1 and MK2. MK3 started spicing it up a little with running, but over all, you still had most characters who played the same outside of special attacks. The fact you could play one character and know how nearly their entire tool set worked and jump to another and do the same, is what made it accessible. That’s outside the easier inputs.
Compare that to SF2, its biggest rival at the time that had every character vastly different from the next with upwards of 16 match ups you needed to know. Even with half the cast being motion, every character had fairly unique normal attacks and special attacks and no two characters would play exactly the same. In SF5, it’s going to still require match up knowledge, character mastery, and so on. Motion inputs do not necessarily make a game more accessible, all it means is that every character should get to capitalize to a similar degree on the fly, while still retaining their own unique characteristics.
Compare early MK to the MK of today. MK of today is way more like SF than it was back then. A lot of characters have unique normal attacks and specials now. It’s changed a lot. By your logic shouldn’t there be less people interested in playing MK because it’s not as easy made as the MK of yesterday? Well, sales proves that wrong. People obviously want to play the game. You know what MK has over SF? Story mode and single player stuff to keep casuals busy. Lots of things to unlock and explore. Multiplayer isn’t necessarily the main draw to the game, even though in the long run, it is. You could easily spend 4 to 8 hours playing MK solo, which is on par with CoD and other FPS games that are mainly played for multiplayer. SF really doesn’t have this. Factor in MK has always had a large following in the USA because of the themes behind it. SF is not trying to be MK by changing up some character’s motion inputs, though, I do feel SF could learn a bit from MK like single player things to do. Besides that point, SF also has a huge following, but tends to attract the more hardcore for a number of reasons, the games are built more with competitive play in mind than “hey bro look at all this cool kung fu and gore shit!”
it just sounds like to me daemos, just wants charge characters to be limited. And not want them to be as good
They want people to use the no claw style and you have to be walking towards you opponent to use the new command throw.
I can’t really figure out how Vega’s typical specials really benefit from charge motions anyway. It’s not like he’s Dictator or Balrog.
His new Aurora Spin Edge as well. You’re going to be dancing around, mobile, not charging, and will probably need to use that move for damage from a distance. Plus, EX gets you in with the double hitting ASE.
Yes, this is a well established reality. Charge specials respond better to preemptive, anticipative, and active play than reactive play. You just have to think further ahead and approach match ups differently - This has been demonstrated many times through out this franchise’s history, where charge players crushed their opponents in a high skill level setting. Your choice of word ‘limit’ is misrepresentative not only because all characters are limited in some way to balance them but also because it sounds like you are calling it a handicap when it isn’t, it is a different risk to reward ratio that specials and characters are built and designed for and around.
You and others also continue to compare charge specials to motion specials in a vacuum, in spite of the fact that this game and its characters are not designed to be played in a vacuum.
Yes. That is what I want. You caught me. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for you meddling kids.
I’d say all you really did was simply define the words or terminology I wrote out.
What would happen if a charge character didn’t have back forward inputs? Obviously they wouldn’t have to deal with losing charges during cross ups. Which is essentially the terminology I used. Being a motionless charge characters comes with specific perks, but it otherwise has the same principle of having to buy time in order to do a special.
I see your point.
I want to baseball bat that peasant’s head into an electrified wall of spikes. Can’t really tell if he has no dignity or no brain. I think it’s both. Either way, watching that is just hard. When I see people mashing the literal living fuck out of controllers it makes me livid.
Not to harp on the mk stuff but it’s just false when it comes to the sales and what not. This generation mkx will smash sf in sales but it will also be available on every console under the sun. An mk main entry game has never outsold a main entry sf game. Compare mk9 to sf4 and see the huge gap in sales numbers. The narrative that mkx is destroying sf in sales is false
MK9 sold 5 million (one version across different platforms)
SF4 sold 8 million (including all different versions across different platforms but excluding PS4 sales)
According to Fortune, MKX is currently the best selling game of 2015 and is forecast to become the best selling entry in the franchise.
To be honest, I fucking love SF5 so far but Capcom has to up their game if they want to beat SF4’s sales which benefited from so many factors that were unique to its time of release. Now that there is ‘one disc’ only and the fighting game market is far more competitive/saturated, not to mention the dominating emergence of MOBAs, Capcom will struggle IMO. This is where I applaud MKX, so many people around me who have NOTHING to do with fighting games bought MKX and no it’s not just the fatalities, people know the characters and their stories and that will keep them coming back just as well. It will be interesting to see what Capcom has up its sleeve in the coming months.
So no the narrative is not false. MKX is currently leading the fighting games market.
Well it’s the only mainstream fighter to be released in 2015… Not hard to be number 1 when there really isn’t competition.
Not bashing mkx and I agree you are correct its appeal is more then just fatalities ( however I don’t discredit their appeal either). I actually enjoy mkx, I’ll jump on for a challenge tower every now and again or some king of thehill matches, nrs did a bunch of things really well with this release.
Sf5 biggest challenge will be overcoming its lack of Xbox release and even then, when its all said and done the numbers may be a lot closer than people think.
What do you mean no competition? MKX is the best selling game of 2015 so far, as in not just fighting games - but any games.
Street Fighter 4 alone sold 3.3 million copies. SF5 may beat those numbers, but I have my reservations that it will achieve match the total SF4 sales because of its limited release. Capcom are banking on the long term cash stream that SF5 will offer from those who do purchase the one disc, it’s smart and it isn’t very risky considering the stellar success this business model has proven to be for similar competitive games.
Sorry for digressing, we should get back on topic. Charge bad! MOTION GOOD! ARGH!
The games released towards the end of the year will kill what mkx sold in one week. What mkx is doing is great but let’s not get it twisted, it won’t be a top 5 selling game by the end of the year.
You said mkx is leading the fighting game market, I said yea because mother fighter released in 2015… Was I wrong?
I honestly have no idea how sfv will do, but the idea that they can’t compete with mk is and always has been false. Numbers just don’t support the argument.
Agreed back on topic, I want a charge grappler just to see srk burn
Yes they probably will, but ultimately MKX’s sales will be compared with other fighters from its generation. Fighting Games in general haven’t be able to compete with the sales of other genres for a long time. Still MKX is selling like hotcakes and it’s nice to see any fighting game do that and sad to see some people here try to discredit their hardwork and achievement.
No you weren’t by the way, I thought you were responding to another part of my post.